#17 - Checking In: Real Talk with Two Men

0:08 Welcome to Mind and Faith Matters. I'm Dr. Cory Potter, the host, and today I'm talking to my nephew, Dr. Joe Weaver, and we're just doing a check -in just to talk about our emotions, our mental health, being dads, being husbands, and he shares some really awesome practical advice about reaching out and checking in and helping others. So as you listen to today's episode, I want you to... enjoy and think about what are some ways that I could just do a quick check in with my friends, my family, and just to make sure that they're doing okay, and I'm offering them a listening ear support and the ability to know that they're loved and cared for. So take a listen. Oh, hey there, didn't see you.

0:59 Hey, welcome. So I want to introduce you, this is... My nephew, Dr. Joe Weaver, he's a professor, the father of five, which I have my Cliffnote version, four girls. So he was a girl dad and then his fifth, correct, son. That's right. Yeah. I have two girls. And today we're going to be talking on the podcast about parenting and fatherhood and husbandry, just being husbands. I think husbandry is raising animals for like livestock. I mean, I do have a big dog who's kind of wooly like a sheep, but yeah. Well, so when I was in the classroom, I was told I had dad jokes and I know.

1:49 Oh man, we're too similar. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny because we have not really talked ever about parenting or about being a husband. Other than I just ask if your kid was talking to you before we first started. Other than that, I really haven't asked you questions. So, all right, let's just set the record straight here. First, I wanna know on a scale of one to, oh, let's go 1 ,000, right? Okay. One to 1 ,000, how manly of a man are you, in your own opinion? Well, this is going to come off as fence sitting, but I'm going to go with maybe 550. Don't let the beard kid you.

2:43 I barely see it. Oh, I know your beard. Yeah, I have one too. Yeah, maybe that's the problem. Maybe if I grew it a little bit more like yours, I'd be up to 600. Well, no, I don't know what I am. Thanks for asking. But I do think that. I was raised by a single mom. I had two sisters and then I raised girls with a female wife. So I was around females other than we had a male dog and he was not as manly of a male dog. You know, very sensitive. But I'm a sensitive guy. But I don't even know what we're gonna define as masculine or manly or macho. I just... I think, coming at it, I'm probably midway there too.

3:29 I'll give myself a 551. I think because the beard... What is this? Price is right? Come on. Yeah. I'm one more manly out of a thousand than you. Literally one -upping. I mean, I don't know if there is a clear definition of that. It is. And I am doing it. I'm hosting. So I decided... That's fair. Yeah. So I'm predicting now that you actually are the type of parent husband where you're a little bit more in touch with your emotions or the fact that you're sensitive to others' emotions.

4:10 I don't think that makes us less manly or more manly. We're just maybe we're the type of people that are in tuned a little bit with how we're feeling, how people are thinking. Is that fair to say about you? Or maybe I should just ask because that's where I'm at. And you don't have to be like me, but it'd be nice if you went along with it. I will go along and it's also true. I think that we do have a lot of those underlying characteristics that are pretty similar. I think that's probably why we both went into people oriented professions, psychology specifically. I'm always curious about what people are thinking and feeling and emotion and emotion regulation is one of my areas of research. So it pairs pretty well with that. And I say that sometimes it's annoying. I don't know why I'm laughing. Uncomfortable laugh. It's annoying to some people in my life that I'm constantly like, you know, giving them the the one over of like, I wonder what they're really feeling right now or feeling a bit of my own frustration when other people aren't as open with like expressing their particular feelings.

5:22 So in a traditional point of view, I would say that that puts me pretty low on a masculinity type of scale because our cultural expectations I think for a lot of people for old school masculinity is that you're quiet and you're strong and you're unshakable and I don't know you're just kind of there but not necessarily very interactive you're kind of like an oak tree I guess that from that viewpoint but uh not really how I roll I guess okay yeah that I like that when you mow or work around the house, do you ever do that shirtless? Now I'm keeping this PG, I just have a question. No, I don't. I used to, so when I was in high school, I had a landscaping job for a summer, but just a little bit of a nerd alert.

6:18 About halfway through my landscaping job, I got a job from the same employer to compile his pictures from an Alaska trip into like one of those slideshows with music, Ken Burns style. Not that I was bad at the landscaping bit, but I'm glad I did get that shift because when I did it shirtless, I had huge blisters all over my back. Terrible sunburns. But also my wife's family has a history of skin cancer that's probably related to sun exposure. So pretty, pretty consistent that I'm wearing a shirt. Also, I don't know if this is considered PG or not. Let's just say I have some more traditional masculinity in terms of back hair Another reason why I'm trying to be kind to those around me, and I'll keep a shirt on well I'll tell you why I ask it's kind of funny, and I do respect my dad, but when we were talking about even his obituary We I had to control the idea that you know he was proud that he kept his physique in shape, which men should be proud of. Any person should be proud if they keep their physique in shape. But there was talk about his shirtless mowing. I think I put it in the eulogy during the funeral, but it didn't make it into the obituary. And so I was going to joke about our masculinity and ask if you go shirtless.

7:48 I, for two reasons... And you've covered the one. I mean, there are manscapers. I'm just saying I need to get sponsored by a manscaping trimmer brand or something. Harry's. I think Harry's is a brand for manscaping things. Whole body scapes. Yeah, body scaping. But I too have issues. Apparently that's genetic and it must have come from my side of the family and part two I Don't always lift weights. I do sometimes but I've been Not recently and so I can get a little When they say sore on the eyes, there's different levels of that I I Should wear a turtleneck.

8:37 That's all I'm saying if I am out outside so yeah testing our masculinity, I think I I don't really have much else to say. I do find out by the way that I'm short. I found that out. Just now? Yes. I mean people have been really pulling the wool over your eyes I think. I don't have a Napoleon complex. I think we should disclose here for just a second why it's shocking that you're short because how tall was grandpa? 6 '2". In his prime. 6 '2", 6 '3", yeah. Well, and there are pictures with my brothers and myself and my dad and everyone's over six but because of my disability, I have broad shoulders but I'm short and I think it has to do with that.

9:29 I'm going to use that as well as the excuse. I don't share the same disability that you have but I don't know what happened. My mom clearly in the lineage shared many genes with the grandpa and with you but I should be taller. I've got these ape -like arms that have, I don't know, probably a 6 '2 arm span. And my feet are sized, I wear size 12 shoes. But I'm only 5 '9". My dad, he's 6'. I don't know, there's some kind of like weird lottery that I lost. You might not have a Napoleon complex, but I've still got this inferiority complex that's really pushing hard here. I'm glad you brought this up. How long of a session do we have to talk about my issues? Well, we can cut it up into like a family counseling series if we need to, that's fine.

10:26 I wanted to... I'm gonna let it go. I don't even remember why I brought up that I'm short. It was a confession. I'm sorry. No, it's fine. Derailing here. I just don't know why I'm short. No, I don't know why that was part of the... the thing the the manly the not manly i don't know i don't know but now now everyone knows my my secrets about being short well i will say that there's i i can't quote any studies on this but there are um there are studies showing that people who are taller tend to have more social prestige and they tend to get promotions more often and have a higher salary all things being equal so I don't know, there's some value definitely placed on being tall, and I think that goes within that masculinity bucket that you're just supposed to be this imposing figure. Yeah, that's so true.

11:26 There are some talented guys that I know that are CEOs and higher -ups in the fields that I've been in that deserve it. It wasn't just because they were tall, but people perceive that as being... more authoritarian and more in control. But at the same time, I've known some that I'm like, that dude just, he passed the height test, that's about it. That's about it because he wasn't leading as well as he needed to. Like how I look, that's not really what this is about and how I wanted to find what we're talking about. I really think you and I may approach the... parenting style I'm not gonna go into how do you discipline your kids but being that we both are men of faith and we actually share maybe some different denominational differences. Yeah I mean just to put it out there so we were Catholic. No I'm just kidding. My dad's family was Catholic and I kind of but I have been in other I don't know what I'm gonna say other flavors. Christianity. Yeah, so I think I've got pretty good exposure across the board.

12:45 So with your kids, how does your psychology and what you know about emotions and thoughts, how does that match up with your faith in how you raise your kids? Just in general, it doesn't have to be too scientific. Yeah. Well, I'm thinking about a study from 1962. I'm kidding. I'm not. But actually, Bindura does come to mind and we kind of model things and how our behaviors get passed on generationally just from observing what our parents do. But I'll say that, yes, you can go in the pool. Remember sunscreen. this is not every enactment of something that happened this is actual it is not it will it'll happen again I'm sure I'm glad she asked though that's good right I mean that's a good sign yeah yeah and so in terms of like matchup I think it really comes down to really honoring everybody as a person you know as their own unique creature and understanding that we've all got different things that are going on in our lives, even when you're, you know, our little list is four. And he's got a really full life. You know, there's a lot of things that are going on for him all the time. And I will say though, that Jenny and

14:15 I have one line that I think is pretty firm in terms of, you know, you can feel the things that you're gonna feel and you can have ideas and opinions and you can express about those. But like one thing that we... really fall back on is that you need to treat each other with kindness. So that's one. You asked me before about the dad voice, but that's one of the times where the dad voice will come out. Especially just because I know that being a girl dad and a lot of the social things that they're in the mix of just from being girls of a certain age. but I see it come out sometimes at home and you know it's just like a okay stop what we're doing think about what you just said why you said it and you know coming back to just there should be love and kindness like that should be the baseline yeah there's deviations from that obviously but you know that's what we try to stay at for today's listeners because we're doing more of a casual discussion I didn't push record at first and we had this Great initial conversation that didn't make it was so good. I mean probably would have changed some people's lives I'm thinking it would and in that I did talk about Do you actually have a dad voice and you you told me that you had two? One is the attention grabber. Hey, let's make sure that we stop what we're doing and then there's the more contemplative, you know, I'm

15:48 about to I'm about to lay down some wisdom and I think I'm laying down wisdom for sure Yeah. And by the way, I went ahead and got my notes off my phone. The one scripture I was talking about is in Ephesians 6 -4, Fathers, do not exasperate. I always want to say exacerbate, but exasperate your children. Instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord, which love and how we treat each other is right there in it. And train. up a child in the way he should go even when he is old he will not depart from it proverbs 22 6 so there's this idea do as I say not as I do that's not really I think that's everybody's yeah our dream yes but how has having 16 children I'm just kidding five children how had I know you like that movie gremlins i think that's what may have happened one of them got wet after midnight or no just what in general eight after midnight it just appeared wow no i know how things happen i'm not asking oh okay so i wasn't you said keeping a pg i wasn't sure if we needed to have a cover story oh okay a little aside here for just a second that's fine one of my colleagues um when we I made the announcement

17:19 that we were expecting Alfie, who's our youngest. She took me aside and she gave me this kind of sideways look and she's of Italian descent. She's also very short, which again, maybe there's some of those genes in the mix too. My dad claims that I have all kinds of genes from all different walks of life. in the gene pool. So who knows what lottery again I struck there. But she took me aside and she looks up at me. But with this kind of stern look, she's like, you know how it works, right? Almost as if we were surprised that another kid was coming out. But yeah, no, not 16. And we do know how it works. And they were intentional. And they're here. Yeah. But with those kids did that change you from how you like your high school college joe versus married father joe because i've changed a lot since the high school college corey and so how has having kids that's what i'm trying to get out here but yeah how's having kids changed you well i think that i always knew that i wanted to have kids i thought it was going to be maybe three my wife came in with let's have six and we compromised with five. Okay. Which, you know, fine, it's close, it's in the middle. But I would say before it was a lot more, it was okay that

18:50 it was me, you know, that I was the focus and almost maybe expected. I think when you're of a certain age and you don't have that other responsibility, some expectations that you're supposed to go and do and be something. More than what you might have been in that earlier era But yeah, our first was born right before I graduated from graduate school like a week early and It was a pretty monumental shift right away that that was gonna be the the big focus and it continues to be Hi, Olivia. I Think you'll be okay without that And see, it's about the kids. And that's okay. It is, that's fine. I love it. So what changed in you? The focus became about your providing for your family. Is that what you're suggesting?

19:51 Or being available for them? How did that change you? Yeah, I think definitely the on -call 24 -7 of not just, you know, assistance in the world, but just you know, all of you for all of them. You know what I mean? Not to say that I don't have things that are separate from kids, you know, I don't have a lot of interest in a lot of things that I do, honestly. But it's a pretty clear calling to be that open and available. I can't say... And it would be misleading to say that I don't get frustrated sometimes when those things collide, you know, the needs of the work versus the needs of kids or the needs of friends or family and the needs of my own kids, you know, that we all have to juggle those things. But here's my this is kind of morbid.

20:48 It's maybe a bit of a stoic thing to think about when you lose stuff. But when I think about the things I put my time into and what might go away. I mean, the thing that I'm most concerned about is how are the kids going to be? You know, like, so I could do more things at work, but I don't know, I could get fired or, you know, my university could close or who knows all those things that could happen. But my kids are still going to be part of my life. Yeah. I think that's that's healthy. I'm always been a workaholic. I just putting it out there. I work a lot of hours. I put a lot of. Activities in my life. And so when my oldest was young, she's 28 now, when she was young. I'm really upset. I'm sorry. That makes it sound like you had a kid when you're like, you know, 12, because you just still have some jet black hair going on and quite a bit of it still. So for you to say that your oldest is 28 and mine's only 12. And I feel like we look like we're I might be your older brother.

21:54 I mean, it's hard to say. Well, thanks for. I'm gonna interrupt myself to say, I used to have someone that would say, you dye your hair like that. I said, I don't, I don't need to. Like it just, I look like a skunk. Like that's just how it is. I have the same thing. Mine's just really short, but I have the same markings. Although I've got some weird red going on over here. Again, I'm not redheaded, but I've got like a calico cat beard, I guess. Nice. I think that probably makes your manliness go up a little bit. We can think of that genus. Patchy beard. Oh, so I interrupted myself once again to not remember the trail that I was. Oh, sure. Well, I'll catch you back up because I was having a similar train of thought here. But you're talking about being a workaholic and doing a lot of activities, a lot of things going on in your life until. Yeah, I was that way. And I realized I didn't experience some things. with Ashlyn I wasn't there as much as I needed to be and so there was a shift that happened unfortunately it was after she was a toddler I mean I spent time with her don't get me wrong we did play we you know I had my cuddle time we all that was there I listened to her but her mom was raising her a lot and I was busy and with work primarily And I just made this vow that I wasn't gonna do it no matter how many

23:25 more kids we had, which we just had one more, that my focus, no matter when I was going to school, when I was studying, I would come home from work, be there in the evenings, and then after bedtime, even if I had to burn the midnight oil, I would. I couldn't do that now. After two days of doing it, I would need like four days of recovery. So I need my sleep, but... I made this shift and realized I was gonna, it was an intentional act to dedicate that time to my kids and frankly to my marriage too and soon I talk about this all the time that we need to date each other still and not just on the big anniversaries but go out, have some us time. I do know what she's thinking because we do talk a lot about.

24:20 her business and we do plan these little excursions during the day to be out and about but we I think we committed to every other month getting away for a day or two on the weekend and then we haven't done that as much as we committed to but we wanted to do that like we have these great intentions which that's a whole nother episode That how good we can feel about our intentions, but what we actually do is what matters to others So well, I'll say this one of the big predictors of Long -term life satisfaction though is hope and optimism So as long as you're still carrying that they're like, yeah, we're gonna do it. It's gonna be good I think that's that's a good sign. That's true. I don't think I should build my relationship with my wife on We should have good promises.

25:13 Yeah promises, but I think we both Realized that you know we have grown kids a little different dynamic now. I want to ask I don't want to get personal about your marriage, but What? Has been the Single or maybe top two things that you've done that's Helped keep your marriage healthy as you juggle this career this 550 manly hood Manliness This is this I we're gonna have to start a club the 550 club I can see the shirts already. Yes, and the the parenting thing like what are the really the top two things you've done to make your One or two it doesn't matter Yeah Well, I think that the one is the the daily driver, which is that we always make sure that we have time for just ourselves Unfortunately, in the summertime, when our kids don't have to be up for school, that usually pushes it pretty far. I don't know, for the last month, it's been like, okay, it's 1130, all the kids are asleep, you know, like really asleep, not just we've put them to bed and then they're, you know, back talking to us in 20 minutes, but actually asleep.

26:37 And, you know, we'll watch a show or something together, you know, something we both enjoy. So making sure that we have that time. almost every day is really important. And we do try to go out and have some really intentional dates. I will say that with five kids, it is awfully difficult. So we also, we don't live close to family. Our closest family we have is about a three hour drive. So asking, you know, grandparents to help out. is just not really a thing. And even when we are visiting there, it's, you know, pretty short periods of time. And have you ever done like a polar plunge? No, not on purpose.

27:26 Well, not on purpose. Well, I hear the analogy. I think it's pretty steadfast here, though, which if you've got somebody who's, you know, older adult who hasn't been parenting maybe for a while and then you ask them to watch six kids. It probably is a pretty strong shock to the system. So we don't really put that on anybody, but we do sometimes find some child care. But here's the real perk is our 12 year old is now at a stage where we think she's responsible enough that she can watch them for some short bursts of time. And that's worked out pretty good. We've had one date with Evelyn in charge and all the children have survived and we feel confident that we can do that again.

28:11 So that's that hope. Those promises that that's going to happen more regularly. Yeah, which is good. So those are the two. So one, the kind of every day. Make sure we have some time and then the more special. Let's go out without the kids and sit and eat and nobody will ask us for anything except for the server. But we're OK with that. How do you? Maintain your own mental health. How do you do that as a man that's a little bit more in touch with your emotions? This really isn't about masculinity. I know we're joking, but you know, you are more apt to recognize the need for emotional regulation and have strategies too. Yeah. Well, I would say that if I were putting in like MLB terms, I would probably be maybe batting like a I don't know, around 300. I feel like that's kind of pretty good. Yeah. I don't play baseball. I'm not really a sports person.

29:11 I don't know why I picked that. I really put myself in the line of fire there. Well, I have a question. Remind me to ask you about the Detroit Lions. But go ahead. Go ahead. OK. Yeah, so I do. I definitely at least have the emotional intelligence level enough to know when things are like getting heated or discombobulated. the strategies are sometimes kind of tough to implement because I'm generally always with people. It's really a blessing, but sometimes it can feel kind of a lot, I guess I'll just say. So rewind a little bit here. So yeah, I am a college professor and with that affords some really nice flexibility in terms of when things happen. So yes, I've got classes that I definitely need to be there at a certain time at a certain place. I have office hours a couple times a week. But the rest is pretty flexible. I recently turned down an administrative position because of that loss of flexibility. But my point here is that when I'm not at work, I'm usually with my kids, with my family. But even when I'm thinking I'm going to get a little bit of time, in my office, outside of office hours, inevitably I'll have a colleague come in and it'll be a conversation, which I always enjoy. But in terms of that, I need a minute to regroup things. I do specifically make

30:44 some time at the expense of some other things. So I've transitioned to be a pretty hard morning person. I'm usually up by five in the morning so that I can make sure I've got some time. to be myself to do some of the things that are like just me centered. Yeah, which sometimes I as we discussed and you were on on my podcast, but this course I'm teaching on what psychological science can tell us about the good life and one thing that's really important is sleep. Part of my value system is that I kind of have to juggle all the things. I'm a finite creature and that's one that I unfortunately take a hack out because I'm usually up until maybe midnight and then I'm usually up by five to make sure I've got time for those things. So one, I guess, strategy is making time that I can be sure is time that I can focus on some things that I really need for myself. And the other is and I'm still working on this, the, okay, masculinity comment number 17. I don't have any tattoos. I know you've got tattoos. I've got a cousin. You've got a nephew who's like an award -winning tattoo artist.

31:59 My mother has tattoos. My sister, my brother, a lot of us have tattoos except for me. And I think it's that I've got some commitment issues that I'm like, I don't know if I can commit to this message that I'm putting on my body for this long. But one that I keep coming back to that I'd really think hard about is like, take the time for kindness, because it's always worth it. You know, I don't know how to put that in a succinct way that like an anagram on my arm or whatever. But I need something like that to help remind me because when I'm in the throw of things, I always feel this pinch that I don't have enough time to do all the things that are really important and necessary. And I can feel myself getting short when I'm in those time crunches.

32:44 So that's what I'm still working on. But the technique that I want to be better at is taking the time to just let that feeling pass of anxiety and worry. And it will pass. I mean, it does. It just passes. So if I just let that initial feeling tone down a bit, then I can be more attentive and appreciative of the moment rather than thinking about things that aren't even happening yet. I wouldn't say this for the podcast, but I would say it in my real life. Do you want to hit pause before you say this? No, I'm going to say it.

33:25 This isn't how I would present myself, but it's the truth about me. Sue knows it. When I have stuff that I have to get done, I have these hard deadlines and I'm busy working. or I have a lot of them, which that has been the story of my life. That's how I've been able to provide for my family. I work hard and I have some more technical and complex jobs sometimes. And with that, I - Zookeeper? What? Zookeeper? Did you add that in yet? I haven't done zookeeper yet, but I don't know. I want to just try and see what I look like in a safari hat first and then go on from there. Alright, I'm gonna have that shipped to you. I will do a whole episode on the psychology of zookeeping. And the scene was already there, Cory. I think I was just seeing the sprout about the zookeeping comment. The passion. Exciting.

34:21 It is. I'm hiding. Hiding it. You got a penguin back there? My prop. So I am going to say this. I have did stalking your Facebook and My Facebook yeah, I'm bringing up a series of pictures. I'm kidding. I'm not but as I say I'm very Absent on Facebook, so I would be really interested to see what you found on there now Jenny She is very good at sharing things for family and the like but well I saw you've been surprised at a maybe is that a campgrounds or something and you had a Detroit Lions shirt on is that because of Yeah, geographically where you live or are you a Lions fan? Mostly geographic, but also more of a fan because of the relocation.

35:12 But yeah, I haven't, I've never really been a big sports person because, well, one, I had never been very good at it, but also my family just wasn't really into sports in any kind of meaningful way. We watched a lot of CSI when I was growing up. There's probably shirts for that too, but. No, but they were they were doing pretty well last year if you remember so they had lots of shirts and I got one half off and I'm like I'm gonna be part of the cool kids. Nice. I don't know if that happened but I have a shirt. I had Lions paraphernalia and shirts and stuff when they were oh oh and I think then it was 16 I don't think they had a 17 game season so I've been a Lions fan for a while and I have. Well exciting for you then. Yeah. I was gonna wear a lion shirt today just in honor of the fact that I saw you in a lion shirt and I thought it was cool. I... We'd have to really coordinate because I only have the one shirt so it wouldn't happen just by coincidence. Gotcha. So yeah that's...

36:22 I was gonna... just to keep it light, I was gonna ask, does your wife pick out your clothes or do you dress yourself? But I don't really want to know the answer to that if I had to do this. Well, you're gonna get the answer. Do you go shopping for yourself or is she the shopper for you? Not usually. I'll buy like, I'll pick up my suits, I guess, when I need a new suit. I guess to say I don't I don't really have like a time in my schedule that I'm like, it's time for me to go shopping But you know when Jenny is out and she sees something she's like, oh, I like that for him intro buddy So I guess but I also have to say I don't have much identity in my clothes Where I'm like, this is the kind of look I want to own because this is what I want people to think about me when they look at me I guess I just don't have time for that I'll probably put on whatever yeah Excuse me.

37:15 I think that I do have some basic looks that I go for that downplay my wealth. I'm kidding. No, I just I like it. Steve Jobs approach. Actually, you do look a little joby in there with that. Yeah, it's close. I like a good plain shirt, a good T -shirt. And it's funny that we've been talking. I didn't even know we were going to talk about being so manly today, but I also Do you want me to do the grandpa tech thing? Is that what you're building up to? I think that made it into the ology. Yes. I'm shocked. I'm shocked that I didn't get kicked out of the family for what I say, but it's fine. You know, it's funny that we've talked about T -shirts and stuff, and I think a T -shirt is probably a safer place for a saying than. tattoo if I had to be honest because you know you can you can upgrade and change and it doesn't you don't have to laser removal a t -shirt unless you yeah we're doing something really strange but I kind of wanted to just discuss things in general but I also not to put pressure on you but what if you knew someone that was struggling with their mental health as a guy not not just that I need some time I'm a little bit uptight about this and therefore, I do agree with you by the way, many

38:47 things are just going to pass. That anticipatory anxiety, that feeling of I'm overwhelmed, a lot of times that will pass and we can regroup. But if someone was really struggling with some deeper mental health challenges or issues, what would you say to that person? as a guy, to another guy. And I'm not trying to put you on the spot, but do you have any message for someone that's going through something like that? Yeah, this is something that I always say, which is that I'm not a clinical psychologist. So all the advice I give is just from me being another person and not anybody who's had any type of counseling background like you. But the first thing I do is normalize it. You know, it's okay that you're having those types of feelings or thoughts. And by okay, I mean, you know, it's not a character flaw or some type of morality issue that you've, you know, you're a bad person because you're experiencing some mental health issues. Yeah.

39:59 And I also then talk about like, you know, the other side. I'm not sure if you saw this around, but I had some students that had a semicolon tattoo. Yes. You've seen this? Yeah. Yes, I have. So I had to ask a student about it. I wasn't in the loop on this. Nobody consulted with me. However, I appreciate the grammatical message that's sent there. So instead of a period, which is like the end, there's a semicolon, which is like, it's a transition into a new thing. And so talking about like, whenever you're feeling really overwhelmed, that there are, you know, resources and people who care and want you to feel better and to have a better life and experience.

40:46 And I try to let them know that I'm always there to listen. And if they want somebody who can listen with a little bit better guidance, that there are lots of resources out there that too, so. Typically, in my realm, it's, you know, students that I'm talking to, but, you know, other other folks, which I will say that one of my good friends is a clinical psychologist. So I always have that as my backup that I can always, you know, if something's really going on, go and ask that person for some real Some real help in directing that person but you know give them access to resources if they they need somebody to actually help them make that connection or they're not willing to do so or feeling like they want to Being brave and vulnerable in that same moment of helping that person. I think is important Yeah, I don't think we can overstate that enough.

41:42 I think Without going cliched I have people that I've built relationship with I have deeper friendships with and I can sometimes sense that they're going through things other guys and I have some that are just real closed I don't mean closed minded but they're just shut off from wanting to talk about what they might be going through and it's it's not like I can't force anyone to to talk to me or to get help but Oftentimes, I just realize that that availability you're talking about and just listening to someone if they're willing to is huge. And the other thing that I always say on the podcast is in this role, I'm trying to give people information and just make sure that everyone knows that there are resources and there are ways to get help. And sometimes I give this practical advice, maybe some starter.

42:42 Ideas or some things like that, but the truth of the matter is if someone in my opinion is going through something that Is a struggle that's really affecting them on the daily and they can't just seem to to shake it I do the same thing that you do and that is go go get the help go get the resource and Don't be afraid to do it. I also think Some of my topics have leaned more towards I look at my demographics of who's listening and there's more women that are listening. I just don't I Think it's the topic. I think it's overall of the the podcast but I do know that when a man is healthy and Thinking healthy that's when he can Do the things that you're talking about be available to his wife? intentionally set some daily time with her and be there for the kids not just as a provider of financial resources or part of that financial answer. How old are you in your, what is, you don't have to say your exact age in your. Well, let me first say that one time I told a neighbor kid that I was 80 years old and he looked at me and he said, your hair's funny. And that really hurt.

44:05 Carry with me. That was like six years ago. that i said that but i'm 38 yeah i was gonna say i know yeah i was gonna say in your three plus decades um what takeaway maybe has the most rewarding thing or the most satisfying thing of being a parent and being a husband those are two separate things now um is it is it based on the love and connection are we going back to the good life yeah well I yeah, I think that Alright, so a little interesting bit from like a this is no methodic. It's not prescriptive. It's not saying the way that it has to be. But life satisfaction does tend to go down when you have kids. People report their likes their life being less satisfying as they have kids but Overarching, when people have kids, they find more purpose and meaning in their life. And in the long run, those people report being happier than people who don't have children. And marital satisfaction also takes a hit when you have kids, you know? And that's, we are finite. You know, we don't have endless time to give to everybody. So it's a bit of a balancing act. I'm not saying that our love is limited, but definitely our time is. But I would say, yes, back to the original question. The

45:37 most rewarding thing is. I'm going to go with another cliche here, but watching them have a peaceful night's sleep is one of these things that's really fulfilling. And the reason why it's so fulfilling for me. OK, one, they're quiet and peaceful. You've got a lot of kids that are like. a model of an atom with the electrons just constantly buzzing around. Yeah. Seeing them at peace and at rest, you know, like that sounds like they're they're dead. No, that's not what I mean. But, you know, they're they're content, you know, like and that they can sleep soundly just lets me feel like, OK, we're we're doing things right enough that they can go to sleep and sleep soundly and wake up. And, you know, it's a new day. Whenever I see them excited about things That's another thing that just is really fulfilling because they've got a life where they can be curious and feel joy So that's great Do you want me to answer the husband one thing too?

46:42 Yeah, you should you should Yeah, well Knowing that my wife still wants to give me like good hugs. I Think sorry. I keep looking over to the side because there's faces that are appearing and I'm not Yeah, well, he didn't. Yes, but. And quiet. OK, well, yeah, so knowing that, you know, there's still those strong embraces that I mean, one, it's very comforting to me. You know, I can feel really connected at that point. And, you know, we go through lives sometimes in parallel, but always connected. But, you know, those moments where you can just have a quiet, good hug. Yeah. Are you I can't hear your kids because the the software, you know, mutes them out. So I don't know what's happening in the background. Oh, well, that makes it seem like I'm a little off kilter here. I'm not I don't think I'm imagining them. The experience is very real. So I'm glad that it's filtering it out and that the software is working well. But yeah.

47:57 This is a genuine smile, it's not a nervous smile. Even when they bust in, it's still okay. You say that about, and I really appreciate that, I never thought about it, but when you can rest well, it is indicative of something being peaceful in their lives that they're not struggling. and can get to sleep, you know, that is, and the fact that you can give them a roof and a comfortable bed or, you know, provide for their means to have that rest, that's meaningful. The last thing I want to ask is how's the Good Life course? This was the inaugural version of it, right? Yeah, it just, is it over? Well, it just started, no, it just started yesterday, actually. So I have zero feedback. I did have somebody in Saudi Arabia download the first episode, so I don't know what that means. Maybe one of my students is studying abroad. But it's very eye opening to me, I think, because I'm definitely coming at this with a certain, you know, cultural perspective and my own background on what I think, you know, a good life. is, and that still really matters, you know, what your own opinion of what the good life is, because it's not the same for everybody by any stretch. But I think that the thing that I'm learning a lot about is that there are a lot of commonalities in what people really value

49:29 in their life. And the one that I think I suspected, but maybe undervalued was relationships and how that is important just almost across the board and every place. So I think that that focus for people is a really important message right now. I think that's just a message that I definitely want to reinforce for my students. Not that it's a particularly youth -only message, but there's definitely some trends of people being less involved in other people's lives. And I don't necessarily mean that in an intrusive way, but you know, sometimes you need that little bit of extra intrusiveness to let you really know that your life matters to other people and that you can matter in other people's lives. So there's, I think, been a little bit of a slip maybe or a backpedaling and wanting to really meaningfully engage in other people's lives. So that's probably the top one that I'm taking away personally, but I'm hoping that students will be able to take with them too, that a good life doesn't mean that you've got, you know, all the things. And it doesn't mean that, you know, you've met all your goals in of itself, right? Those are important too, but Again, when we look at the data across the world, across

51:00 many decades, the research consistently says it's people. So how did someone in Saudi Arabia download your class or your podcast? You have it up? Yeah, so I'm once again following in the footsteps of my brilliant uncle and I have used RSS .com to host the podcast. Do you want other people to listen? So we should tell them what it is or do you not want people to listen? Do I want people to listen? That's a good question right now. Okay, buddy. It's all right. The ant will be all right. I don't know how much I want people to hear right now. This is how funny this is. You were talking about the software kind of editing things out. But right now it's asking me if background music is playing and I think that it just thinks of my kids voices are just so harmonious and lovely But Yeah, so I don't mind if people listen to it. I mean It is this I'm calling it an open education resource So like a open source textbook kind of thing, but it's you know, auditory based so people can if they want to Yeah, but yeah, I mean that statement of following in my uncle's footsteps is really true So not all of your footsteps. I mean, I haven't been involved in prosthetics and braces

52:32 and Mortgages and things like that. But yeah, I did have a brief stint as a web developer The graphic design I as an undergrad I did that for a year for a local business and I still I still dabble to this day Alright, yeah. So are you going to do, this is the question then, are you going to do the podcast beyond the class? Are you going to continue to have these reflective conversations with people and do more or is it just going to be the episodes if you will or the series for the class as a resource? Yeah, I think I would like to continue to do it. I mean it's one of the great pains of being limited in some way is being aware of how much more there is that you can't fit into something. So for the course, I can't fit all the good stuff in, you know, I highlight and try to get as much across as I can, but like that the really meaningful and interesting conversations, the things that are unfolding faster than the research comes out. I really like to continue to have those conversations, especially with other people and not just myself talking about the things that I've read because it's pretty boring for me.

53:56 A little bit more performative than I like to be. But I try. I'm growing in that way, for sure. But I do like it. Where did they find it? Or what's it called? Like, are you giving? Yeah, I can give you. It's funny. How do they find it? I'm thinking like, well, they get on our content, our learning management system, and I've got a link for the course. Yeah, I don't have like a public facing URL right now other than it's, it is available. I turned on the little button so it would be available in all the podcast platforms. So you can find it under psychology and the good life. Psychology and the good life. And Dr. Joe Weaver is the... author of it or something like that. I think it says Joe Weaver on there. If not, I should probably fix that on my to -do list. Well, I don't know if I'm gonna get you listenership, but I'm gonna check it out myself and I want the resource to be available in case others want to. So I'll track you down.

54:57 I'll figure you. Psychology and the good life, Joe Weaver. But thanks for talking to me today and I know you have... Ants and other things to take care of I have many little creatures. Well, have a good one Thanks for talking and I'll check you check you later. I don't even say that check you later, man I'm gonna check you later, too. I know it's been a lot of fun. I appreciate you having me on to talk but also It's a lot of fun to talk. So even if we're not recording ourselves for you know, public display I think we should do it more. I think you're right. Take care All right. See ya That concludes this episode of Mind and Faith Matters. Check us out at mindandfaithmatters .com.