#39 - Your Identity Was Formed Before Age 7… Now What?

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On today's podcast, so I went to the Word of

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God and I tried to answer those exact two questions

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number one What's my identity? Who am I and number

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two? What is my worldview? How do I fit? Well,

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it took a while, but I found 50 different scriptures

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that answered those questions directly Welcome

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to mind and faith matters the podcast where we

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talk about faith mental health and all the in

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-between I'm Dr. Cory Potter, the host, and

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today I have a special guest, my first guest

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of season two. And I'm so excited because Dr.

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Bob Fisher is someone that I've been so intrigued

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with, his background, the things that he does

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to help people. I met Dr. Bob when I was pastoring

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at a small church in Daytona Beach, and he was,

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I want to say friends, more than just acquaintances,

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friends with the pastor. And so I got to know

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Dr. Bob somewhat, but I followed his social media

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account over time and see what he's doing in

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his clinical practice. And so I invited him,

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and he's graciously decided that he would join

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us to talk about his work. So thank you, Dr.

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Bob, and welcome. It's a pleasure. Thanks for

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having me. Awesome. I just want to share some

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of Dr. Bob's credentials, what he's done. He

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has a PhD. and clinical pastoral psychology.

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He earned a PhD in biblical health, wellness,

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and nutrition. He also has a master's degree

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in biblical counseling. He's nationally licensed

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by the board of examiners of the National Christian

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Counselors Association. He's an ordained minister

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and a pastoral care specialist. He's done so

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much, and I look over the marriage conferences

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that he's either hosted, Or the premarital counseling

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that he's done. I'm so glad you joined me What

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led you to that like what got you interested

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in this people helping business? Hmm Great question.

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Thank you. The answer is my own personal desperate

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need And the old joke is psychology is a trade

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that you have to be crazy to get into. And you

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ask most counselors and they'll tell you that

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same answer, right? I was looking for answers

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and not intellectually pursuing some degree,

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but desperately searching for the reasons that

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my life was where it was. And so it was shop

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class. at the same time that it was lecture,

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if you want to put it that way. And it took decades.

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But yeah, it was a hard -earned experience. So

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I think in the Bible it talks about there's three

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different levels. There's knowledge, there's

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understanding, and there's wisdom. And lots of

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people have lots of knowledge, and with knowledge

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you can pass tests and all that, right? But do

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you understand really what it is, and do you

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understand? What it means and why why is this

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true and why is this not true or why is this

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useful? right, but then there's wisdom and My

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life has led me to a place of wisdom and and

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what that means is knowing what to do So information

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is great. You need that as a foundation, but

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what difference does it make? What difference

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does it make in your life? And so it was the

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desperate need to know what I should do in my

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own life that led me to down this path. You and

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your request for that understanding probably

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makes you a more richly appointed practitioner

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and so with that I'm going to transition to another

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concept I wanted to talk to you about. As you

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approach your practice and helping people could

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you talk a little bit about the whole person

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and how you go about diagnosing what the core

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the root of the problem is and then how you're

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going to approach it with client just in general

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to help people at the end of this that's my goal

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is that people that might be listening would

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say I might need that kind of help I might need

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that kind of assistance in my life too Well,

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to answer that, I have to go to one of my heroes,

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Bruce Lee, right? So back in, what, 67 or something,

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he came over to the United States, and at the

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time, the martial arts were always separated,

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and he was a practitioner of wang chung, and

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you had kung fu, and you had karate, and taekwondo,

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and all these different disciplines. And, you

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know, they would fight each other, quite literally,

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and argue for why their style was the superior

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one. Well, long comes Bruce Lee and he's like,

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you know what we need to do? We need to do what

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works. And I think of modern MMA. What is MMA?

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It's it's that. I mean, whatever your philosophy,

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that's nice. Get in the octagon and see who's

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standing. Right. That's the way that I look at

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it. Right. And so if you go to a psychologist.

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Psychologists are trained to address the mind,

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the thinking, right? So you have cognitive behavioral

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therapy, which is, by the way, the most evidence

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-based treatment in the field, right? So, yeah,

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as a man thinks, so is he, the scripture says,

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right? Well, that's valid, that counts. But then

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sometimes you need to go to a psychiatrist, and

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a psychiatrist is completely different. They're

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a medical doctor, and what they're gonna give

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you isn't counseling, they're gonna give you

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a drug. And thank god for him because there is

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a percentage of people who the drug is precisely

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what's needed. Rabbit trail i think that's over

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done in america but nevertheless they are a medical

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doctor dealing with brain chemistry and that

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is not psychology but then you could run down

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to. counseling center or a church and you could

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talk to you know a church lady and it's my snarky

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way of saying it right and and you could pour

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your heart out and they could say oh you poor

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dear and they they cook a casserole for you right

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and this sounds snarky but but I just mean that

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some people at some times what they really need

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is the friendship they really need the emotional

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edification and connection and absolutely that's

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fantastic Sometimes. But then you go to a minister.

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And what does a minister do? And it's like every

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problem is spiritual, right? And so, you know,

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they pray against the enemy and they pray for

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you and then you're released on your way. Well,

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which one is right? And the answer is yes. All

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four of them are right. Now, what is the problem?

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What's needed? Right now, I'm sitting on a chair.

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It has four legs. I just mentioned four kinds

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of counseling, right? And when I'm sitting with

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somebody, I'm trying to discern which of the

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four legs of the chair they're sitting on is

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the short leg, because the short leg is where

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the instability is. And so a lot of times I work

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with people with anxiety and such on their sleep,

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on their timing and type of nutrients and that

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sort of thing. That's their physiology, right?

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A lot of times what people need is just someone

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to listen. and then come back with listening

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some more, right? There's a time for that and

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that's needed. But then there's a thinking that

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has to be challenged, right? And then of course

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all humans are spiritual, whether you're a Christian

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or not, whether you're an atheist or not, we

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all have a spirit and at some point with all

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people that has to be acknowledged. We're not

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beasts in the field. We do have spirits. And

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so the question always for me is, what does this

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human need right now? Okay, and quite frankly,

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to go a little bit further, there's a perceived

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need, and then there's the real need, right?

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So not at first, but usually somewhere in the

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process of counseling, people have a persistent

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idea often. of what it is they want me to do.

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And sometimes I have to pattern interrupt and

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I have to literally press pause on that and I

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have to apply the medicine. I have to share with

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them from my heart what it is that they really

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need to address. And a lot of times, quite frankly,

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they run from it, they flee from it. There's

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a recognition, there's a fear there, right? And

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so a little tough love sometimes. In what ways

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do you approach someone differently if you know

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they're being convicted by the Holy Spirit? Fabulous

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question. I'm delighted to answer that. One of

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the things that I always share with my clients

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from the very first time is that there's only

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one counselor in this room and it's not me. God

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is the counselor and all of our ears should be

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perked up for what we should be hearing. And

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so what is our prayer? Are we praying going to

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God to tell him what we want? In recovery, you

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have the 12 steps. The 11th step is basically

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sit down, shut up, be it, sit at rest, right?

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Relax, okay? Stop barking orders, stop talking,

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listen, right? Listen. Is God asking you to do

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something? If he's not asking you to do something,

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then sit at rest. You're good. Right? And that

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is the orientation of prayer that brings peace

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to a soul. I love what the story that is told

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of Jesus is that he's got this guy who walks

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up to him and the guy has like a withered hand,

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right? And what does Jesus say? He says, oh,

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here, let me take care of that and heals it,

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right? Uh -uh. The guy walks up with a withered

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hand and Jesus says, what would you like me to

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do for you? No assumptions. So I have same -sex

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attracted clients, right? Am I there to tell

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them that that's wrong? No, I'm there to say,

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how can I help you? What do you want to work

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on, right? So you're talking about the Holy Spirit

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and you're talking about conviction. And to kind

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of circle back to the previous thing about the

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four -legged chair, It's a question of what is

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this person looking for? That's the question.

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And sometimes it is in the area of the spirit,

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sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's a terrible

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night's sleep. And so you narrowed the scope

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of the question to when it is spiritual and when

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they seem to be under a conviction. Well, what

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is the Greek word for the Holy Spirit? The periclete,

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right? The periclete comes alongside. It's an

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advocate, an advocate for you, right? Not our

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accuser. That's the devil. The devil's the accuser.

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Right. God, resting in us, is on our side and

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is an advocate, right? I try to come alongside

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just exactly the same way. They're under a conviction.

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Obviously, you know, the counselor is saying

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something, and they're hearing it. Okay, I'll

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walk with them in it, no matter what that is.

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How do you account for differences in your client's

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temperaments? I think all of us are entirely

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unique. Uh, so I, uh, use a temperament assessment,

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uh, and then also, uh, the, of course, the five

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love languages, everybody knows that, uh, and

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then there's five apology languages and I could

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just go on and on and on and on. I actually looked

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at all the different, uh, clinical instruments

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that I use and simply ran the numbers and, uh,

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it totaled 25. Trillion different kinds of people.

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that I can identify just by multiplying how many

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variables there are in each in each assessment

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right and each assessment is entirely unique

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no overlap so I believe Romans 1 20 says that

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what can be understood about God can be understood

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by looking at what he created and when I look

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at what God created I see an insane amount of

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diversity and so that that's a foundation for

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me and I look at everybody as as simply an individual

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not a type Right, and so I think of the way that

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Jesus engaged with people It didn't appear as

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though he was making any assumptions that people

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would approach him and they would say or ask

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Whatever right and then he would meet them with

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what a question, but yeah, right and then just

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keep drawing out It's actually recorded in the

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New Testament that Jesus was asked 314 questions.

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Do you know how many he answered? Four And it

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used to frustrate me because I would look at

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that and I would say, Jesus, why are you being

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so evasive? They just asked you if you were God

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and I could win my argument if you just answered

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yes. I mean, how hard is it? Just answer the

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question. But this gets into the nature of rabbinical

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teaching. Jesus was a rabbi. And the rabbis teach

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by wrestling, okay? And so how do you handle

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different people? Well, you wrestle with them.

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Not to defeat. but to keep engagement, right?

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So are you familiar with the two major theories

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on education? The one that everyone intuitively

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understands through experience is Hellenism and

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that is that the smart person is standing up

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at the front of the class and all the idiots

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are sitting down and the smart person says all

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the factoids and all the idiots sit there and

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take notes, right? And then you take a test to

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see how good you are at being able to regurgitate

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what you memorized from the notes. That isn't

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really education. That's memorization. And it's

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fake, it's knowledge, it's not wisdom. The second

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one is Hebraic. And there's college systems,

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this is how I was taught, where the answer isn't

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given, the question is. And then you have to

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research and find your answer. And so it's really

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interesting when you think about the three patriarchs,

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Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Why don't we just

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follow the faith of Abraham? Why is it Abraham,

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Isaac, and Jacob? And why isn't it Abraham, Isaac,

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Jacob, and Joseph? Something about Jacob is different.

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Jacob, the word Jacob means usurper. And that

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is that if you just think about our political

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landscape, for example, right? It's that I've

00:14:59.879 --> 00:15:02.259
got the truth in here. I've got my ideas. I have

00:15:02.259 --> 00:15:04.820
what I want. It's all in here. And then I go

00:15:04.820 --> 00:15:06.899
to battle with other people and try to prove

00:15:06.899 --> 00:15:10.080
how smart I am and how stupid they are. And it's,

00:15:10.679 --> 00:15:15.679
right? Okay. His name was changed to Israel after

00:15:15.679 --> 00:15:20.779
he wrestled with God all night. The word Israel

00:15:20.779 --> 00:15:25.519
means One who wrestles with God. And God loves

00:15:25.519 --> 00:15:31.039
to wrestle. And there's Hebraic educational institutions,

00:15:31.460 --> 00:15:35.379
right? Where you learn how to wrestle. It's like,

00:15:35.379 --> 00:15:37.659
you know, jujitsu or something like that, right?

00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:40.480
Or traditional wrestling. You're not trying to

00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:43.220
kill your opponent. It's a sport that you wrestle.

00:15:43.299 --> 00:15:47.120
That's what Jesus did. That's what Jesus modeled.

00:15:47.720 --> 00:15:51.279
And so I think I like looking at it that way

00:15:51.279 --> 00:15:54.399
with clients that I'm stepping into the octagon

00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:57.799
with them. And it's so so that we can get to

00:15:57.799 --> 00:16:00.100
know each other better so that so that we can

00:16:00.100 --> 00:16:03.220
we can challenge some ideas and consider some

00:16:03.220 --> 00:16:06.919
other things and that we can become More wise.

00:16:07.159 --> 00:16:11.299
Yeah, that's good. I like that good word there

00:16:11.299 --> 00:16:14.059
I'm guessing you read a thing or two here and

00:16:14.059 --> 00:16:19.799
there And I know since I've been out of school

00:16:19.799 --> 00:16:23.360
I I'm reading more about neuroplasticity and

00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:28.200
the fact that our brain is moldable and can be

00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:31.659
rewired, and we don't have to stay where we're

00:16:31.659 --> 00:16:34.679
at. When I come at it from a, we're being sanctified,

00:16:35.000 --> 00:16:38.379
you know, and cleansed by God, we're being transformed,

00:16:38.519 --> 00:16:42.019
we're being renewed, those kinds of words, I

00:16:42.019 --> 00:16:45.480
love that even the neuroscience that never was

00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:48.740
available when my beard wasn't gray back in the

00:16:48.740 --> 00:16:55.230
day, that it actually is proving so much of the

00:16:55.230 --> 00:16:58.850
truths that I know from the Bible. Right. I also

00:16:58.850 --> 00:17:02.370
know that research on what's happening in the

00:17:02.370 --> 00:17:04.650
brain is just fascinating. What I want to know,

00:17:05.009 --> 00:17:06.930
what are some interesting things that you're

00:17:06.930 --> 00:17:11.430
learning about emerging ideas? Well, you said

00:17:11.430 --> 00:17:13.450
it, neuroplasticity. I think this is one of the

00:17:13.450 --> 00:17:16.650
most significant things that we could ever talk

00:17:16.650 --> 00:17:19.470
about. The Bible says, as a man thinks so, is

00:17:19.470 --> 00:17:23.220
he? Right. And what we know in child development,

00:17:23.460 --> 00:17:26.180
child psychology is that from age two to seven,

00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:28.940
those five years are called the formative years.

00:17:29.700 --> 00:17:33.160
And those little developing brains are developing

00:17:33.160 --> 00:17:37.380
two beliefs. They're forming. Two beliefs. The

00:17:37.380 --> 00:17:40.200
first one is your identity. And that is the answer

00:17:40.200 --> 00:17:42.480
to the question, who am I? And the second one

00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:45.579
is your worldview. And that is, if this is who

00:17:45.579 --> 00:17:49.019
I am, then how do I fit? Where do I belong? What

00:17:49.019 --> 00:17:51.619
is my role, right? To look at the archetypes,

00:17:51.640 --> 00:17:55.180
right? By your seventh birthday, that concrete

00:17:55.180 --> 00:17:58.259
sets and that literally is your subconscious

00:17:58.259 --> 00:18:00.880
today. And that's true of everybody listening

00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:04.880
to this podcast right now. You believe, at the

00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:09.539
level of intuition, an idea that you formed before

00:18:09.539 --> 00:18:13.880
you ever hit the second grade. That's crazy.

00:18:14.279 --> 00:18:16.740
That is crazy. And neuroplasticity says that

00:18:16.740 --> 00:18:19.460
those neuroconnections that are made, those belief

00:18:19.460 --> 00:18:23.259
systems will be there on the day you die. You

00:18:23.259 --> 00:18:28.119
don't deconstruct them. Okay, so you do operate

00:18:28.119 --> 00:18:31.500
based on that belief system that at the time

00:18:31.500 --> 00:18:34.259
when you were just a little tyke Those are called

00:18:34.259 --> 00:18:38.140
adaptations and thank God for them, right? It's

00:18:38.140 --> 00:18:41.319
you you survived because you adapted to the environment,

00:18:41.740 --> 00:18:43.599
right? And I'm not talking about a bad environment

00:18:43.599 --> 00:18:45.880
I'm just talking about whatever environment everybody

00:18:45.880 --> 00:18:48.859
grew up in But when you're when you're no longer

00:18:48.859 --> 00:18:51.339
a child and when you're now an adult, those are

00:18:51.339 --> 00:18:53.539
things are now called a maladaptive behavior

00:18:55.200 --> 00:18:58.140
maladaptive because it ain't working for you,

00:18:58.140 --> 00:19:01.799
right? And I love Dr. Phil. I don't love Dr.

00:19:01.900 --> 00:19:05.720
Phil, but I love what he says. He loves to ask

00:19:05.720 --> 00:19:09.779
guests. That's what you believe? How's it working

00:19:09.779 --> 00:19:12.380
for you? You know what I mean? Why are you in

00:19:12.380 --> 00:19:15.819
my office? Right? If everything that you think

00:19:15.819 --> 00:19:18.920
is right, then enjoy your life, right? But you're

00:19:18.920 --> 00:19:20.880
not enjoying your life and it's because of that

00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:23.980
narrative that you're following. That is the

00:19:23.980 --> 00:19:26.180
first principle of neuroplasticity. The second

00:19:26.180 --> 00:19:30.380
is you can cut a new path. So, as a man thinks,

00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:34.960
so is he, but the Bible also calls a sheep. That's

00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:38.380
an insult, you know, because sheep are stupid,

00:19:39.319 --> 00:19:43.160
right? Totally stupid, right? And we fancy ourselves

00:19:43.160 --> 00:19:45.619
as being so smart, yet we're just running on

00:19:45.619 --> 00:19:48.380
these old programs that we developed way back

00:19:48.380 --> 00:19:50.880
before kindergarten. So when I was in grad school

00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:53.140
and I was taught about neuroplasticity, I got

00:19:53.140 --> 00:19:55.440
all excited because you can cut a new path. You

00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:58.240
can create new neural pathways. So I went to

00:19:58.240 --> 00:20:02.000
the word of God and I tried to answer those exact

00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:04.359
two questions. Number one, what's my identity?

00:20:04.500 --> 00:20:08.000
Who am I? And number two, what is my worldview?

00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:11.769
How do I fit? Well, it took a while, but I found

00:20:11.769 --> 00:20:15.690
50 different scriptures that answered those questions

00:20:15.690 --> 00:20:19.130
directly. And it's like, okay, so this is what

00:20:19.130 --> 00:20:23.029
God says. And so I listed all 50 of those and

00:20:23.029 --> 00:20:27.710
I began reading them every day. Now, two different

00:20:27.710 --> 00:20:30.720
fields. that I want to talk about and approach

00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:33.579
neuroplasticity from. The first is your field,

00:20:33.859 --> 00:20:36.960
education. I was taught that education theory

00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:40.319
posits that you have to be exposed to something

00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:45.160
250 times before your brain starts to catch it.

00:20:45.460 --> 00:20:48.599
So our education system is built on repetition,

00:20:48.980 --> 00:20:53.180
right? Got it. Totally good. In my field in psychology,

00:20:53.299 --> 00:20:56.960
it was approached a different way. and the answer

00:20:56.960 --> 00:20:59.700
came back a little bit different. And that is

00:20:59.700 --> 00:21:05.160
that if you were to study with great focus and

00:21:05.160 --> 00:21:09.440
intensity, study something for seven minutes

00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:15.720
every single day, it would take 63 days before

00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:19.559
you would have your first epiphany. Now that

00:21:19.559 --> 00:21:23.220
sounds like a sheep, but you think about it.

00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:27.339
And it's true. That's why you always hear, be

00:21:27.339 --> 00:21:29.700
careful who you hang around with because you

00:21:29.700 --> 00:21:32.420
become like your five closest friends. It really

00:21:32.420 --> 00:21:36.559
is true. Guard your environment, right? So with

00:21:36.559 --> 00:21:39.420
these 50 scriptures, there's something that I

00:21:39.420 --> 00:21:41.460
discovered in everything that the Word of God

00:21:41.460 --> 00:21:43.980
has to say. Now I'm going into the spiritual.

00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:47.180
When I went to search the scriptures for that,

00:21:47.339 --> 00:21:50.740
I fully expected to get an answer that sounds

00:21:50.740 --> 00:21:54.900
like Billy Graham. I expected to hear that I'm

00:21:54.900 --> 00:21:58.180
a sinner, that I was born into sin as a child

00:21:58.180 --> 00:22:01.220
of Adam, and that I've sinned volitionally as

00:22:01.220 --> 00:22:04.500
well, and that my destiny is hell. But, you know,

00:22:04.599 --> 00:22:08.480
thank God he sent Jesus to pay my sin debt, and

00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:11.579
because of that I can place my faith in Jesus

00:22:11.579 --> 00:22:14.680
and then I'm saved by the skin of my brow, you

00:22:14.680 --> 00:22:16.900
know, or whatever, right? That's what I expected

00:22:16.900 --> 00:22:20.900
to find. Yeah. I did not find that. Mean, yeah,

00:22:20.900 --> 00:22:24.059
I found some of that. Yeah. Okay, but as as trying

00:22:24.059 --> 00:22:28.819
to answer the question who am I? Nowhere did

00:22:28.819 --> 00:22:33.099
I find the scripture saying that I am a sinner

00:22:33.099 --> 00:22:39.720
What I found is that I am a saint that's very

00:22:39.720 --> 00:22:44.039
different because that is my identity in Christ

00:22:44.039 --> 00:22:51.430
Right. The devil is the accuser God is our defender.

00:22:53.109 --> 00:22:56.910
The accusations of the devil often are true.

00:22:57.450 --> 00:23:01.589
And what does God do? Jesus steps in front of

00:23:01.589 --> 00:23:08.069
me and defends me against that accusation. And

00:23:08.069 --> 00:23:14.250
further, Jesus takes the blame. So, Everybody

00:23:14.250 --> 00:23:17.150
thinks about Jesus dying on the cross 2 ,000

00:23:17.150 --> 00:23:20.630
years ago and like this this technical piece

00:23:20.630 --> 00:23:25.769
of data that he paid for my sins back then Yes,

00:23:26.309 --> 00:23:31.589
and He also revealed that the relationship he

00:23:31.589 --> 00:23:36.829
has with us is that we getting married and I

00:23:36.829 --> 00:23:41.369
am the bride and the happiest demographic on

00:23:41.369 --> 00:23:45.380
the planet are women planning their wedding.

00:23:45.740 --> 00:23:48.579
That's true. We are supposed to be happy. You

00:23:48.579 --> 00:23:50.359
know what I mean? We're supposed to be filled

00:23:50.359 --> 00:23:54.900
with joy. And what's he doing? He's off building

00:23:54.900 --> 00:24:00.700
a place for us to live when we get married. The

00:24:00.700 --> 00:24:04.299
New Testament is a replacement of the old. It's

00:24:04.299 --> 00:24:07.380
a fulfillment and a replacement. Right? And so

00:24:07.380 --> 00:24:12.640
I think there's a mentality that so many have,

00:24:13.400 --> 00:24:17.160
of improvement. I'm a sinner, I screw up every

00:24:17.160 --> 00:24:20.759
day, and I gotta confess and apologize and ask

00:24:20.759 --> 00:24:26.819
for forgiveness, and try to do better. The first

00:24:26.819 --> 00:24:29.460
circular letter, the first book that Paul ever

00:24:29.460 --> 00:24:31.759
wrote was the book of Galatians. And the book

00:24:31.759 --> 00:24:36.259
of Galatians was addressing exactly that, exactly

00:24:36.259 --> 00:24:39.480
that issue, and saying, that's not it, you missed

00:24:39.480 --> 00:24:42.660
it. You missed it. He removed your heart of stone.

00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:47.500
He gave you a heart of flesh. It is death and

00:24:47.500 --> 00:24:53.640
birth. You are a new creation. And so that's

00:24:53.640 --> 00:24:57.960
what I found in the Bible. So we are told to

00:24:57.960 --> 00:25:04.940
be edifiers. Do we think that God isn't? He is

00:25:04.940 --> 00:25:08.839
the edifier. And so when he talks to us about

00:25:08.839 --> 00:25:13.500
us, He edifies. Now, what about the scriptures

00:25:13.500 --> 00:25:16.660
that talk about our failings? It's really interesting

00:25:16.660 --> 00:25:23.160
because every time any failing of ours is acknowledged,

00:25:23.619 --> 00:25:29.759
it's in the past. Now, once you hear that, you

00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:32.160
got to look for yourself. And once you see it,

00:25:32.180 --> 00:25:35.579
you can't unsee it. And so when it comes to our

00:25:35.579 --> 00:25:39.759
sanctification, Most of my brothers and sisters

00:25:39.759 --> 00:25:44.059
think that that is the lifelong process of me

00:25:44.059 --> 00:25:48.259
becoming ever better. And I see it a little bit

00:25:48.259 --> 00:25:51.240
different. I see what the New Testament says

00:25:51.240 --> 00:25:54.859
about me, and I think that my sanctification

00:25:54.859 --> 00:26:00.740
is the process of me actually believing it. To

00:26:00.740 --> 00:26:05.980
walk in it. It already happened. Now I just need

00:26:05.980 --> 00:26:12.930
to enjoy it. If I learn to accept what I am as

00:26:12.930 --> 00:26:15.569
a child of God, and the inheritance that I have,

00:26:16.150 --> 00:26:18.930
and the beautiful words that you've just spoken,

00:26:19.269 --> 00:26:22.210
I would think differently. You won't just think

00:26:22.210 --> 00:26:24.609
differently about yourself. I think you'll think

00:26:24.609 --> 00:26:28.710
differently about those around you. And out of

00:26:28.710 --> 00:26:32.750
that healthier living, I really think what you're

00:26:32.750 --> 00:26:36.940
saying here is quit striving. Pay attention to

00:26:36.940 --> 00:26:40.640
what he yes like yes in a nutshell quit striving

00:26:40.640 --> 00:26:43.660
and let's look at what God's done for us That's

00:26:43.660 --> 00:26:48.579
it. Let's live there. Let's live in that Amen

00:26:48.579 --> 00:26:51.380
and and let me talk about joy. Okay, my Bible

00:26:51.380 --> 00:26:55.859
says that in his presence there is fullness of

00:26:55.859 --> 00:27:02.660
joy Joy is the root word of in joy and and so

00:27:02.660 --> 00:27:08.569
much of our language around counseling is about

00:27:08.569 --> 00:27:12.450
work, effort, you know, progress, all that kind

00:27:12.450 --> 00:27:15.109
of stuff. What if we were to acknowledge what

00:27:15.109 --> 00:27:20.470
God told us and that is that He is presently

00:27:20.470 --> 00:27:25.170
providing and not to receive it. How about just

00:27:25.170 --> 00:27:30.430
enjoying it? Enjoy it. You're already here. You're

00:27:30.430 --> 00:27:33.950
already complete. Can you just enjoy it? Can

00:27:33.950 --> 00:27:39.109
you enter into the enjoyment of? What he's providing

00:27:39.109 --> 00:27:42.490
and so I want to say something about about that

00:27:42.490 --> 00:27:47.269
as well. What was the first? Miracle that Jesus

00:27:47.269 --> 00:27:51.910
did He's at a wedding and they run out of wine

00:27:52.119 --> 00:27:55.700
Right? And then he makes this wine, right? And

00:27:55.700 --> 00:27:59.140
it's in there that the host of the wedding went

00:27:59.140 --> 00:28:01.640
to him and said, you know, you saved the best

00:28:01.640 --> 00:28:04.720
for last. So what is the quality of what he made?

00:28:05.240 --> 00:28:11.400
The best. Okay. Can God give mediocre? I think

00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:14.519
what God provides is the best. Now, How much

00:28:14.519 --> 00:28:17.259
did he provide? Did he provide everybody with

00:28:17.259 --> 00:28:19.599
just a controlled amount to make sure there's

00:28:19.599 --> 00:28:22.259
no drunkenness? Actually, it's in the story that

00:28:22.259 --> 00:28:24.140
everybody had as much as they want and some were

00:28:24.140 --> 00:28:29.400
wasted. Yeah. How much did he provide? You just

00:28:29.400 --> 00:28:32.660
go down in the notes and it tells you how many

00:28:32.660 --> 00:28:36.180
jars were left over and what their capacity was.

00:28:36.599 --> 00:28:44.980
Corey, there was 150 gallons left over. So what

00:28:44.980 --> 00:28:50.619
God provides is awesome. Yeah, and he doesn't

00:28:50.619 --> 00:28:57.900
provide What you need He provides everything

00:28:57.900 --> 00:29:02.319
he doesn't hold back So yeah, probably not great

00:29:02.319 --> 00:29:04.200
that some of the guys there got drunk great.

00:29:04.220 --> 00:29:08.160
Okay, nevertheless That's on them Right, but

00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:11.220
he still provided it. He did not control and

00:29:11.220 --> 00:29:14.619
limit so take that to the fruit of the spirit

00:29:14.619 --> 00:29:18.160
The fruit of the spirit is not the fruit of my

00:29:18.160 --> 00:29:21.599
spirit, right? It's the fruit of his spirit.

00:29:21.880 --> 00:29:27.460
So how good is it? Is it mature? Yes It's already

00:29:27.460 --> 00:29:29.480
mature. I hear believers talk about being fruit

00:29:29.480 --> 00:29:32.099
inspectors and they inspect somebody else's life

00:29:32.099 --> 00:29:34.539
by the fruit that they see I Get it. I get it

00:29:34.539 --> 00:29:36.880
right. Yeah, but it isn't their fruit. It's the

00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:42.220
fruit of the Spirit of Christ now how much Love

00:29:42.220 --> 00:29:45.700
joy peace patience kind how much does God provide?

00:29:47.059 --> 00:29:52.680
All of it. Yeah, he doesn't meter it out at all

00:29:52.910 --> 00:29:56.069
And so that's where it's synergistic with so

00:29:56.069 --> 00:29:58.529
much of what else is written in the New Testament

00:29:58.529 --> 00:30:02.730
about how we're supposed to die. We're not supposed

00:30:02.730 --> 00:30:05.589
to be in a self -improvement program. We're supposed

00:30:05.589 --> 00:30:08.430
to crawl on the altar and die. We're supposed

00:30:08.430 --> 00:30:12.089
to walk in the spirit, not the flesh. We're not

00:30:12.089 --> 00:30:15.250
supposed to put cosmetics on the flesh and make

00:30:15.250 --> 00:30:18.470
it look better. That's what made God mad at the

00:30:18.470 --> 00:30:21.480
Pharisees. Yeah, and so it really is this cease

00:30:21.480 --> 00:30:25.019
your striving sit down shut up He is the fountain

00:30:25.019 --> 00:30:27.240
inside of you that you'll never thirst again

00:30:27.240 --> 00:30:32.180
And and he's providing enough for the world through

00:30:32.180 --> 00:30:36.319
you This takes me to the the the contrast between

00:30:36.319 --> 00:30:38.700
the old and the new testament because it's it's

00:30:38.700 --> 00:30:41.799
right on point The old testament could not be

00:30:41.799 --> 00:30:44.920
more different than the new Jesus fulfilled the

00:30:44.920 --> 00:30:48.829
old. Yes, he did Okay, but then he instituted

00:30:48.829 --> 00:30:53.069
the new and the new is nothing like the old The

00:30:53.069 --> 00:30:55.789
Old Testament is about performance and this is

00:30:55.789 --> 00:30:57.490
what you should do This is what you shouldn't

00:30:57.490 --> 00:30:59.930
do and when you do good you get rewarded and

00:30:59.930 --> 00:31:02.109
when you do bad you get punished And it's all

00:31:02.109 --> 00:31:06.529
on you. Okay? Jesus comes along perfectly fulfills

00:31:06.529 --> 00:31:11.849
that done and then he says in John 13 34 a New

00:31:11.849 --> 00:31:14.650
command I give you and here is the new covenant

00:31:16.430 --> 00:31:20.569
The Old Covenant, he summarized when he was asked

00:31:20.569 --> 00:31:26.609
by a Old Testament scholar, expert, asked about

00:31:26.609 --> 00:31:29.509
the Mosaic Covenant, he summarized it and said,

00:31:29.990 --> 00:31:31.789
love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul,

00:31:31.869 --> 00:31:34.289
mind and strength. And then he added the second,

00:31:34.430 --> 00:31:36.789
which settled the debate, an argument in the

00:31:36.789 --> 00:31:40.009
day, that love others the same way you love yourself.

00:31:40.130 --> 00:31:46.049
Now, my question is, in that summary, Who is

00:31:46.049 --> 00:31:51.970
the source? I am supposed to love God with all

00:31:51.970 --> 00:31:54.930
of my heart, soul, mind, and strength. Who's

00:31:54.930 --> 00:31:58.769
the source? It's yours. Me. And then I am supposed

00:31:58.769 --> 00:32:01.150
to love my neighbor the same way I love myself.

00:32:01.230 --> 00:32:06.430
Who's the source? It's you. Me. That's what the

00:32:06.430 --> 00:32:10.549
Pharisees were so phenomenal at, at the performance.

00:32:11.750 --> 00:32:14.849
Jesus wasn't the only one, according to Scripture.

00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:20.000
That perfectly followed the law. Paul said he

00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:23.539
did, and his word translated in English, his

00:32:23.539 --> 00:32:27.460
performance of the law was flawless. Perfect.

00:32:28.279 --> 00:32:31.519
Okay? And what'd that get him? That gave him

00:32:31.519 --> 00:32:35.319
the heart that was so proud that he was out murdering

00:32:35.319 --> 00:32:41.619
people who would follow Jesus. Wow. Really? Okay,

00:32:41.779 --> 00:32:44.140
so what is the new covenant? And this to me is

00:32:44.140 --> 00:32:47.079
the most important thing in the world. Jesus

00:32:47.079 --> 00:32:51.500
says in his final sermon, and I'm putting pieces

00:32:51.500 --> 00:32:54.319
together, he said that he fulfilled the Old Covenant.

00:32:54.920 --> 00:32:58.920
He doesn't expect us to. Okay? And then he said,

00:32:59.339 --> 00:33:01.440
a new command I give you, and that is that you

00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:04.079
love other people the same way I loved you. Now,

00:33:04.079 --> 00:33:09.839
who's the source? He is, yeah. John 4, you know,

00:33:09.880 --> 00:33:11.319
the woman at the well. If you knew who you were

00:33:11.319 --> 00:33:15.640
talking to, would become in you a well spring

00:33:15.640 --> 00:33:18.859
of living water that's an artesian well and you'll

00:33:18.859 --> 00:33:22.680
never thirst again he said that he's the chief

00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:25.640
cornerstone and we aren't the temple of God we

00:33:25.640 --> 00:33:29.200
are a living stone stacked with all the other

00:33:29.200 --> 00:33:31.779
living stones and together we make the temple

00:33:31.779 --> 00:33:35.519
but he's the foundation right he's the supply

00:33:35.519 --> 00:33:38.460
and so to put it all together where does where

00:33:38.460 --> 00:33:41.559
does complete peace come from Peace is a fruit

00:33:41.559 --> 00:33:44.160
of the spirit and so many clients. Well, all

00:33:44.160 --> 00:33:48.819
they need is peace. Yeah and If you have the

00:33:48.819 --> 00:33:52.180
the spirit of Christ dwelling in you you possess

00:33:52.180 --> 00:33:56.259
already a fountain of Enough peace for the whole

00:33:56.259 --> 00:34:00.160
world it's already in you and what he wants you

00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:05.990
to do is to enjoy it and share it And there's

00:34:05.990 --> 00:34:08.050
a very interesting, I gotta keep going on this,

00:34:08.309 --> 00:34:12.650
very interesting thing in Ephesians 6, 8. Jesus

00:34:12.650 --> 00:34:14.769
said, be sure you're gonna reap what you sow.

00:34:15.590 --> 00:34:17.409
And that sounds like a threat, you know what

00:34:17.409 --> 00:34:20.329
I mean? You sow discord, sow discord, you're

00:34:20.329 --> 00:34:22.510
gonna get discord, right? Okay, but it's also

00:34:22.510 --> 00:34:27.389
a promise. You're gonna get back 30, 60, 100

00:34:27.389 --> 00:34:31.250
-fold the good that you sow. The mistake that

00:34:31.250 --> 00:34:34.539
people make in relationships, is that they have

00:34:34.539 --> 00:34:38.039
a resentment because they're measuring what they

00:34:38.039 --> 00:34:40.960
give to their loved one and what they're getting

00:34:40.960 --> 00:34:44.840
back, and they've made the mistake. They've made

00:34:44.840 --> 00:34:46.880
the mistake of thinking that they're gonna reap

00:34:46.880 --> 00:34:51.559
from where they sowed. So look at all I've done

00:34:51.559 --> 00:34:55.340
for him or her, and then they treat me that way?

00:34:55.960 --> 00:34:59.559
That's the trap. Jesus said in Ephesians 6 -8

00:34:59.559 --> 00:35:02.559
that when you give these gifts of the Spirit

00:35:02.559 --> 00:35:08.059
to other people, He repays. In the Old Testament,

00:35:08.179 --> 00:35:11.320
with Israel, He said, if you give to the poor,

00:35:11.400 --> 00:35:15.780
you lend to God. Who's going to repay you? The

00:35:15.780 --> 00:35:20.780
poor? No. God repays. And He is that constant

00:35:20.780 --> 00:35:24.380
fresh supply. And so, flourishing in life from

00:35:24.380 --> 00:35:27.949
the spiritual and mental, uh comes from exactly

00:35:27.949 --> 00:35:32.610
that give without give without cost without concern

00:35:32.610 --> 00:35:35.110
give your peace your love your joy give it to

00:35:35.110 --> 00:35:39.409
other people and let him replenish you and stop

00:35:39.409 --> 00:35:42.349
stop being a vampire that is attempting to suck

00:35:42.349 --> 00:35:45.190
the life out of another human being for your

00:35:45.190 --> 00:35:52.369
supply yeah that's witchcraft in general how

00:35:52.369 --> 00:35:55.570
can you help someone to just Live that life and

00:35:55.570 --> 00:35:57.789
see that differently. Do you have any words of

00:35:57.789 --> 00:36:01.869
wisdom there? I believe that I am walking alongside

00:36:01.869 --> 00:36:06.889
of people to experience with them and to What

00:36:06.889 --> 00:36:10.510
did the rabbis do? They walk with you and they

00:36:10.510 --> 00:36:12.429
talk about what you're seeing and what you're

00:36:12.429 --> 00:36:14.969
experiencing, right? And of course, you and I

00:36:14.969 --> 00:36:18.130
have been taught that nobody ever changes anything

00:36:18.130 --> 00:36:21.730
until the pain of change is less than the pain

00:36:21.730 --> 00:36:24.650
of where you're at. And so pain has utility.

00:36:25.250 --> 00:36:30.230
Pain has benefit, right? And in addiction recovery,

00:36:30.349 --> 00:36:31.690
I mean, you know, people have to hit bottom,

00:36:32.010 --> 00:36:37.840
right? It's just like that. So I think the emotional

00:36:37.840 --> 00:36:40.280
aspect of just joining someone where they're

00:36:40.280 --> 00:36:45.340
at This is where that comes in, right? People

00:36:45.340 --> 00:36:48.840
people have to feel connected. I think of Homo

00:36:48.840 --> 00:36:51.300
sapiens is just one of many species of mammals

00:36:51.300 --> 00:36:55.239
and one attribute of all species of mammals is

00:36:55.239 --> 00:36:59.480
that we are social and We find security through

00:36:59.480 --> 00:37:04.639
the attachment with others And so when somebody's

00:37:04.639 --> 00:37:06.340
really struggling, I mean, you really have to

00:37:06.340 --> 00:37:08.639
start there. They really have to know that they're

00:37:08.639 --> 00:37:13.360
not alone and that they're seen, right? So that's

00:37:13.360 --> 00:37:19.280
a part of the process. And then back to Dr. Phil,

00:37:19.940 --> 00:37:24.139
how's it working for you? Help people to come

00:37:24.139 --> 00:37:28.360
to realize that they need something. that they

00:37:28.360 --> 00:37:31.059
don't have. And so back to the 12 steps. I really

00:37:31.059 --> 00:37:34.360
love the 12 steps. I think every sober person

00:37:34.360 --> 00:37:37.639
should Google the 12 steps and read them because

00:37:37.639 --> 00:37:40.280
there's a ridiculous amount of wisdom in them,

00:37:40.280 --> 00:37:44.460
right? And the first one is just to recognize

00:37:44.460 --> 00:37:47.920
you got a problem. And the second one is to realize

00:37:47.920 --> 00:37:52.539
that if you could have fixed the problem by now,

00:37:53.260 --> 00:37:57.380
you woulda. Yeah. And the fact that you haven't

00:37:57.380 --> 00:38:01.360
yet means that the solution is outside of you.

00:38:01.579 --> 00:38:06.420
That's a great realization to come to. And so

00:38:06.420 --> 00:38:09.420
sometimes to go the rabbinical approach would

00:38:09.420 --> 00:38:13.699
be to ask people, what are your options? What

00:38:13.699 --> 00:38:17.079
have you tried? How'd that work? And do the Rabbi

00:38:17.079 --> 00:38:21.260
question thing. Other times there's a thing called,

00:38:21.820 --> 00:38:24.559
do you like football? I love football. You love

00:38:24.559 --> 00:38:26.559
football? Okay. The real reason I asked you that

00:38:26.559 --> 00:38:29.079
question is that this English word football,

00:38:29.079 --> 00:38:31.619
it could mean American football like the NFL,

00:38:31.900 --> 00:38:35.119
but it also the most people on the planet to

00:38:35.119 --> 00:38:37.480
them, it's soccer, right? So which one of those

00:38:37.480 --> 00:38:40.260
two came to your mind? American football. Oh,

00:38:40.260 --> 00:38:42.639
okay. Okay. That's that's the answer that I that

00:38:42.639 --> 00:38:47.239
I usually get. Now, the real reason I asked that

00:38:47.239 --> 00:38:50.059
question is to ask you this. Did your attention

00:38:50.059 --> 00:38:52.750
just flip from what we were talking about? to

00:38:52.750 --> 00:38:57.670
football sure did it did that's called a pattern

00:38:57.670 --> 00:39:01.949
interrupt i just did it to you yeah i love doing

00:39:01.949 --> 00:39:04.690
that right and and sometimes people are you know

00:39:04.690 --> 00:39:09.190
40 of literally everything that we do all day

00:39:09.190 --> 00:39:13.329
every day including our conversations our synapses

00:39:13.329 --> 00:39:17.369
aren't even firing we're in total road so i go

00:39:17.369 --> 00:39:20.269
to the counselor's office and this is what happens

00:39:20.570 --> 00:39:24.309
And there's no real engagement. So pattern interrupt.

00:39:24.889 --> 00:39:27.250
You know what I mean? Sometimes you do that.

00:39:27.750 --> 00:39:30.650
And the most gentle way to do that is with a

00:39:30.650 --> 00:39:33.389
question. And when you see people that are just

00:39:33.389 --> 00:39:36.690
going along saying what they say every week,

00:39:37.349 --> 00:39:39.230
and then you ask a different question, and when

00:39:39.230 --> 00:39:43.650
they stop and they go, and they look up to the

00:39:43.650 --> 00:39:46.670
right, now they're thinking. You know what I

00:39:46.670 --> 00:39:52.079
mean? So that's available as well. I really appreciated

00:39:52.079 --> 00:39:55.840
this time and your insights and just your natural

00:39:55.840 --> 00:39:59.000
way of helping us to learn about ourselves and

00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:01.860
maybe get us encouraged to take some next steps

00:40:01.860 --> 00:40:05.380
in our lives. I love it. I love the opportunity.

00:40:05.960 --> 00:40:09.039
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank

00:40:09.039 --> 00:40:09.880
you. Take care.