#24 - When Faith Meets OCD

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I want to welcome you to this week's episode

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of Mind and Faith Matters, the podcast where

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we talk about things safely regarding mental

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health, faith, and all the in -between. I'm really

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excited today because Karen Ganon is my special

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guest, and she's decided to join us to talk about

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her faith, her journey, and we're going to also

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talk about obsessive -compulsive disorder today.

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And so I'm excited. that we can share this episode

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and her insights and her journey with you today.

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So welcome, Karen. I'm glad you're here today.

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Thank you. Thank you for allowing me this opportunity.

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I'm very excited. Well, Karen and I met on a

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Christian podcasters online Facebook group, in

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essence, and then we've talked and got to know

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a little bit about each other. Today, as I say,

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we're going to talk about Obsessive -Compulsive

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Disorders and the related things that go along

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with that. But Karen is a believer. I'm going

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to ask her to share who is Karen, what are you

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doing now, what have you done over the last...

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You can go back as far as you want. Just introduce

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yourself a little bit and then I'm going to talk

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about... what we mean when we say obsessive compulsive

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disorders clinically and then we're going to

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talk about your life and how that really I don't

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even want to say affected your life because maybe

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it hasn't affected your life but how you navigate

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your life with it. So welcome again. Like Cory

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said my name is Karen Gannon. I think I'll just

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start a little bit. I was the middle child of

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a middle class family. And one thing I usually

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start with, because I think it was the point

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that I... Well, it was the point that I decided

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that life wasn't safe and I became a major worrywart.

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I mean, my family has always said I was a worrywart

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since I was a child. When I was seven, my youngest

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brother, Tom, who I loved dearly and would wake

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up... When he'd wake up early in the morning

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on Saturday I'd take him downstairs and feed

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him breakfast and put the cartoons on so that

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my parents could sleep longer He caught leukemia

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and in those days There was there was no cure

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at all. So he died when he was four and I was

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seven and There was no counseling in those days,

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you know, we're talking late 50s early 60s nobody

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got counseling and Everyone in my family just

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had to deal with it how we dealt with it within

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ourselves. We didn't even really talk about him

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much my mom has picture up in the living room

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and You know, but I that was when I realized

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life wasn't safe I mean to me old people died

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kids didn't die, you know, we knew he was sick

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the siblings but so I think was the beginning

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of just this whole thing And I don't know how

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much of an intro you want because I know you

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want to to tell about what OCD is but I think

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my clinical When I became clinically Diagnosed

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or whatever with OCD I was in my 20s I've struggled

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with OCD for over 40 years varying degrees In

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my 30s and 40s, I went through a lot of stressors,

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huge amount of stressors, and I think that really

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brought it out so much more until I just thought

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I was crazy. I didn't know what to do with myself.

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I didn't know it was OCD. I didn't know anything

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about OCD. And I just, like I said, I was a Christian

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already. I became a Christian when I was 25.

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Okay. Sorry, go ahead. No, you go ahead. Well,

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I was going to say, we'll get into what you've

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done to manage and how your faith has impacted

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your life working with OCD, but I want to unpack

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that a little bit more because I said you're

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also a believer. I just want to put it out there

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that you've had faith for Generally as long as

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you've had your diagnosis fair to say or yes

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Yes, I was always a worrywart, you know from

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childhood, but Yes when OCD really kicked in

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it was soon after I became a believer and I think

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I Think that part of that might be That God had

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to unpack a lot of things and so some stressors

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came at me kind of fast When I was a pretty new

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Christian I was raised in a very well I was raised

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in the Catholic Church and no mention of grace

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at all it was all like okay you try to be good

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and be good enough to get to heaven and there

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was a lot especially in those days of talk about

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hell and and if you made a a sin that couldn't

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be forgiven and that kind of stuff so I grew

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up with that and i think when i became a believer

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i had to god almost had to bring me to empty

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me like he does i think a lot of people and then

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hold me back up again so a lot of this started

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when i was a new christian um the stressors that

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brought this all to a head and i had to i had

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to just rely on him because they're again in

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those days you I mean you could have counseling

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by the time I was in my 20s and stuff but I don't

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know I don't know if OCD was really um well known

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and counselors knew what to do with it um the

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few that I tried never mentioned OCD I I think

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I discovered that on my own what it was um through

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a book I read that God gave to me obviously because

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No one mentioned it to me, even though I would

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tell them stuff about, you know, myself. But

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I probably hid a lot of stuff too, you know,

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because it's so embarrassing and it's, you know,

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it's crazy. Some of the things you think and

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do, you know, it's crazy. And it's embarrassing

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to tell people, even counselors. And you are

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kind of afraid that they will believe some of

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the things like if, if you fear harming someone

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or something, which is a very common. Yes, OCD

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then are they gonna believe that and and you

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know report me or something. I mean, it's just

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crazy. I know I'm sorry I need to I need to be

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a better host towards my guess is what I need

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to do and let you finish your thought No, I like

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when you cut in because I can my mind can go

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different places. I can get off well before before

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I actually talk about the diagnosis and like

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clinically I want to just say it's so interesting

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that you said that because on other episodes

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when we're not talking about OCD and we're just

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talking about what it is to be a believer so

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many people hide what they're going through and

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I think in western culture in the US it becomes

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challenging sometimes to find trusted people

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that you can share who you really are what you're

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really thinking whether it's this thought or

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of that's repetitive and compulsive and then

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you have a compulsion to do something or if it's

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just I'm supposed to be this way but I'm thinking

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that way so I think this applies what we're talking

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about today applies more broadly than we might

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imagine beyond OCD so I think we can help those

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who don't have OCD just by talking in this very

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candid open way about your journey so thank you

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again for that well you're welcome and even when

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I was you know a new believer the church I was

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in uh it was a Baptist church and I'm not that

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I'm sure that matters but they didn't talk about

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mental health from the pulpit at all in those

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days and it was kind of it definitely I think

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was a stigma you know I mean you could be physically

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Have some physical problem and everyone pray

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and yes and yes but if I started telling the

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general public some of the thoughts that went

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through my head and You know my struggles they

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I don't know what other Christians would have

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You know, I told my very closest friends that

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I could trust and that is it Yeah Yeah Right.

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It's pretty wild. I'm gonna actually read the

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definition out of the the clinical manual that

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where practitioners use. And when we talk about

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diagnoses, it's not to label someone because

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a lot of times people get afraid of labels. What

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Karen and I had talked about off air when we

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met and discussed things, a diagnosis really

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just helps someone to know I'm not alone in what

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I'm going through. Someone else has been here

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and someone else There's a name for what I'm

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going through and as mental health has caught

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up I'm not I might be with you that it may be

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that it's still a little bit stigmatized a little

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bit and it's better church, you know within churches

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and stuff and sometimes people over generalize

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and say Well, if you have something wrong mentally

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with you, you just need to pray harder. Right

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and to me that goes back to When I was a kid

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and someone might see me walking with my leg

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braces and say Well, if you have more faith,

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you could be healed and I'm like, wait, is that

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is that a thing like and so the point of all

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that to me is we do not We really Aren't quite

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where we need to be and that's why my podcast

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is Here to humbly try to help bridge that gap

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between mental health and faith OCD, for short,

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obsessive -compulsive disorder, is a diagnosis

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where there's the presence of either obsessions

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or compulsions to do something, take an action,

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or both. The first part of it is you either have

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a recurrent and persistent thought pattern, these

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urges, or maybe it's images that people experience.

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And sometimes during disturbance, it's intrusive,

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unwanted, and really in a lot of individuals,

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most individuals, it says it causes marked anxiety

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or distress. So in other words, it is accompanied

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by stress. And the other part is the individual

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attempts to ignore or suppress the thoughts,

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urges, and images. or to neutralize them with

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some thought or action and that action is like

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performing a compulsion and there's more to it

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but there's this idea that it's just germaphobes

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you know or there's just one type of OCD and

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really the compulsions are defined by these repetitious

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behaviors. So it could be hand washing, ordering

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things and checking that they're in the right

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order. In some cases, it's praying, counting

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or repeating words silently a lot. And that person

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feels driven to perform that and it's in response

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to this obsessive thought. And there might be

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rules that that person applies to it rigidly.

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And so that's what we're talking about. And I'm

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going to let you share your type of OCD, but

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I want to just give some general types of obsessions

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that are out there, right? There's this intense

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fear of germs and dirt and contamination. So

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the contamination obsession. There's As I said,

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symmetry and ordering things. I have to have

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this and my shoes have to be this way and the

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laces have to be tied this way and they have

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to be shined this many times and we have to do

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that. Then there's harm obsessions as Karen spoke

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about. Some people have religious obsessions

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where they're preoccupied with their religious

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beliefs to the point where it's affecting their

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activities of daily living and it's interruptive.

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disruptive to their lives there are sexual obsessions

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there are dysmorphic body dysmorphic like seeing

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yourself and your parents as being flawed and

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so some people and you know you've seen people

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that want to get cosmetic procedures to the point

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where they don't look like themselves anymore

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and that could be symptomatic of OCD now I'm

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not a surgeon and I'm not the type of doctor

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that looks at is someone safe to have this surgical

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procedure that's not my training or background

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but OCD can produce ticks in people these involuntary

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movements involuntary gestures and then some

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people have OCD that's Focus on their physical

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symptoms or their sensations that they're feeling

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in their body the pain and sometimes it's illness

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But other times it's people get really focused

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on how their body is feeling and their sensory

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stuff Somatic somatic is what that's called and

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then unfortunately people can become obsessed

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and have fears of about romantic relationships

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and I've seen very protective people, and I want

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to dispel something here. There are all of us,

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all of us have some form of thought patterns,

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and sometimes we get focused on patterns. When

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you have a clinical diagnosis of OCD, some people

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say, oh, I'm so OCD, and they might not actually

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be OCD, but what we're talking about today isn't...

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diagnosing Karen, that's not my job, that's not

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what we're talking about. We're just wanting

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to lay it all out there that you might have some

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tendencies and not have the diagnosis, or you

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might be listening today and have this diagnosis.

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But these obsessions and compulsions, the point

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of them is to reduce or prevent the distress

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that's going on. Like, it's a trigger in the

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body and the mind is saying, hey, we have to

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do this thing here. I'm not talking about split

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personalities when I talk in the plural, but

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I am saying, I need to do this thing to prevent

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the stress or prevent this dreaded situation

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or event from actually happening. And it's about

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the amount of time that a person spends on it.

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Diagnostically, if it takes over more than one

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hour of a day, that tends to lead more towards

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that diagnosis. We also want to be certain that

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it's not based on other generalized anxiety disorder

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or a preoccupation with just being body dysmorphic.

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They're saying, I'm too fat, I'm too skinny,

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I'm too this, I'm too that. And so sometimes

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when what's going on can be better explained

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by another diagnosis, the other diagnosis will

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be what's in place. But lot of people who have

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OCD, they definitely fit into the patterns of

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what I'm talking about. So Karen, thanks for

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sharing your whatever you feel comfortable with,

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but how has OCD shown up in your life in addition

00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:19.599
to what you've said? Like what does it look like

00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:24.500
for you? Can I first tell you about that book

00:17:24.500 --> 00:17:27.400
and how I realized that's what I had because

00:17:27.400 --> 00:17:30.200
what you said was very important when I had that

00:17:30.200 --> 00:17:33.039
label You remember I said I just thought it was

00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:35.839
crazy. I didn't know why my own brain was like

00:17:35.839 --> 00:17:39.279
my enemy Why would I do that to me? You know,

00:17:39.519 --> 00:17:42.140
I was held hostage by my own brain. That's what

00:17:42.140 --> 00:17:46.859
it felt like and God brought to me I saw an article

00:17:46.859 --> 00:17:49.579
in the newspaper about a book it was written

00:17:49.579 --> 00:17:55.180
by Jeff Bell and this was many years ago and

00:17:55.180 --> 00:17:57.700
when it described the book a little bit I thought

00:17:57.700 --> 00:18:00.539
okay I'm gonna get this book so I ordered the

00:18:00.539 --> 00:18:05.160
book and I was in the second chapter even in

00:18:05.160 --> 00:18:07.019
the first chapter when I started to get suspicious

00:18:07.019 --> 00:18:11.019
by the second chapter I was like this is me this

00:18:11.019 --> 00:18:16.299
is me I I recognized it totally and that's when

00:18:16.299 --> 00:18:19.359
I knew and that's when went I had that label

00:18:19.359 --> 00:18:22.960
and that made me feel, yes, I'm not alone. This

00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:26.039
is a thing. I'm not just crazy. This is a thing

00:18:26.039 --> 00:18:28.859
that people have. And then I could look into

00:18:28.859 --> 00:18:32.440
it and research and get help for it and things

00:18:32.440 --> 00:18:35.019
like that. But yeah, it was through a book and

00:18:35.019 --> 00:18:41.720
he I could so relate. He was he had a yacht or

00:18:41.720 --> 00:18:44.500
a small boat that he would take his friends out

00:18:44.500 --> 00:18:47.960
on the weekend. And one day he took his friends

00:18:47.960 --> 00:18:51.099
out and when they were backing up from the slip

00:18:51.099 --> 00:18:54.700
a wave or something wake from another boat going

00:18:54.700 --> 00:18:59.160
by hit their boat and it kind of tilted it over

00:18:59.160 --> 00:19:02.319
and Close to the boat next to him and the slip

00:19:02.319 --> 00:19:05.460
next to him and he thought did I hear a sound?

00:19:06.119 --> 00:19:08.640
Did I did I hit that boat? Did I hear a sound

00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:14.480
and? That a simple thing was his trigger for

00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:21.859
years. Wow. Years of stress and I mean he became

00:19:21.859 --> 00:19:24.940
his job became in jeopardy. He seems like he

00:19:24.940 --> 00:19:27.799
had a very supportive wife that really you know

00:19:27.799 --> 00:19:29.480
was patient with him because it's hard to be

00:19:29.480 --> 00:19:32.319
patient with people with OCD because we need

00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:35.640
encouragement all the time and to people to tell

00:19:35.640 --> 00:19:37.940
us you're okay and blah blah blah. Well he went

00:19:37.940 --> 00:19:42.109
for years he would go back almost every day at

00:19:42.109 --> 00:19:44.430
least for a year and look at the boat next to

00:19:44.430 --> 00:19:46.390
him see if there was any scratch. The other people

00:19:46.390 --> 00:19:49.029
on his friends would say oh it was nothing one

00:19:49.029 --> 00:19:50.589
said I might have heard something the other said

00:19:50.589 --> 00:19:53.250
no I didn't hear anything and it just caught

00:19:53.250 --> 00:19:55.250
in his head and that's what happens with OCD.

00:19:55.490 --> 00:19:57.930
It's like this rut that it just goes round and

00:19:57.930 --> 00:20:00.650
round and you can't get it out at least I didn't

00:20:00.650 --> 00:20:04.180
know how and he didn't know how either. and he

00:20:04.180 --> 00:20:06.539
would go back and check it and check it every

00:20:06.539 --> 00:20:08.920
day and take pictures of it and he'd look on

00:20:08.920 --> 00:20:11.220
his boat around to see if there was any scratches

00:20:11.220 --> 00:20:17.480
and he even uh one day happened to he arranged

00:20:17.480 --> 00:20:20.720
it meet one of the people on that boat the other

00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:23.980
boat and so he told him the story and the guy

00:20:23.980 --> 00:20:29.349
was like okay yeah And that's how people respond.

00:20:29.589 --> 00:20:32.470
It's like, all right. The other boat was a wreck

00:20:32.470 --> 00:20:34.930
anyway. It wasn't even a really nice boat or

00:20:34.930 --> 00:20:39.809
anything. But he could not get it out. And so

00:20:39.809 --> 00:20:42.470
he wrote a whole book about that. You think,

00:20:42.509 --> 00:20:45.190
how can you write a whole book about that? Well,

00:20:45.470 --> 00:20:49.990
yeah. And so I looked him up. I have a second

00:20:49.990 --> 00:20:51.910
screen over here. If you see me playing, I'm

00:20:51.910 --> 00:20:54.890
totally listening. Yeah, no, no. I figured that's

00:20:54.890 --> 00:20:57.519
what you were doing. I see this, when in doubt,

00:20:57.880 --> 00:21:01.619
make believe. And that's an OCD inspired approach

00:21:01.619 --> 00:21:04.299
to living with uncertainty by Jeff Bell. And

00:21:04.299 --> 00:21:07.559
then there's this other book, rewind, replay,

00:21:08.420 --> 00:21:11.700
repeat. Repeat. So I'm going to drop that as

00:21:11.700 --> 00:21:15.640
a resource on the companion guide on the website.

00:21:15.859 --> 00:21:18.119
So thank you for bringing that up. That can that

00:21:18.119 --> 00:21:20.339
can help. I always love helping people. Yeah.

00:21:20.509 --> 00:21:23.890
He still works with OCD because I saw recently

00:21:23.890 --> 00:21:25.710
more he's written more books and everything but

00:21:25.710 --> 00:21:28.990
it was that rewind replay You know and the title

00:21:28.990 --> 00:21:32.109
caught me and that's why I was like Huh, and

00:21:32.109 --> 00:21:34.849
that's why I ordered the book, you know because

00:21:34.849 --> 00:21:37.630
it is like a replay replay replay replay and

00:21:37.630 --> 00:21:41.049
you can't You can't get it out. I mean I was

00:21:41.049 --> 00:21:44.029
a teacher and so I could do my job. I love kids

00:21:44.029 --> 00:21:47.930
I could do my job and not think about it because

00:21:47.930 --> 00:21:51.720
it's a busy job and i'd get home and immediately

00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:54.640
it would start and this would go this could go

00:21:54.640 --> 00:21:58.359
till four in the morning i mean quite commonly

00:21:58.359 --> 00:22:01.380
you know i was awake until my body just shut

00:22:01.380 --> 00:22:05.259
down in pure exhaustion and then get up the next

00:22:05.259 --> 00:22:07.740
morning and go to work again i mean it's just

00:22:07.740 --> 00:22:11.599
it's brutal i can't tell you how brutal it is

00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:16.319
um yeah yeah yeah you know i sometimes have some

00:22:16.319 --> 00:22:20.039
insomnia related to Thinking about the demands

00:22:20.039 --> 00:22:22.420
of my job or other things going on in my life

00:22:22.420 --> 00:22:25.619
and I can't even imagine that being on a repeat

00:22:25.619 --> 00:22:29.200
Because I do that one night and then I'm I'm

00:22:29.200 --> 00:22:31.460
toast for the rest of the week So I can't even

00:22:31.460 --> 00:22:35.559
imagine how exhausting that must have been that's

00:22:35.559 --> 00:22:39.240
why You know, I I don't know how I made it at

00:22:39.240 --> 00:22:44.339
that time until I Did then go on medicine which

00:22:44.339 --> 00:22:46.279
I was afraid to do because people with OCD are

00:22:46.279 --> 00:22:50.609
pretty much afraid of everything And so it took

00:22:50.609 --> 00:22:53.190
me so long to go into medicine, but I would never

00:22:53.190 --> 00:22:56.430
go back. I'm on sertraline, only 50 milligrams.

00:22:56.490 --> 00:23:01.430
It's not that high. It's so loft. It's called

00:23:01.430 --> 00:23:05.769
sertraline and it improved my life like 85%.

00:23:05.769 --> 00:23:10.849
I stopped that like total craziness that just,

00:23:11.029 --> 00:23:14.470
you know, I still have the intrusive thoughts

00:23:14.470 --> 00:23:16.970
and stuff, but God has shown me many things of

00:23:16.970 --> 00:23:19.490
how to deal with it over the years. I mean, it's

00:23:19.490 --> 00:23:23.990
been a lot of years. So we want to talk about

00:23:23.990 --> 00:23:28.789
and I'm going to advocate with you that I'm not

00:23:28.789 --> 00:23:31.430
the guy, you know, I am an ordained pastor. I'm

00:23:31.430 --> 00:23:33.910
not actively pastoring a church, but I'm not

00:23:33.910 --> 00:23:37.809
that man of God and she's not that woman of God

00:23:37.809 --> 00:23:40.009
that's going to tell you, you just need to have

00:23:40.009 --> 00:23:44.019
more faith. Now, faith can help. Faith can do

00:23:44.019 --> 00:23:48.339
so many things to calm us and God's spirit in

00:23:48.339 --> 00:23:52.559
us can help and do wonders for us, but Medicine

00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:55.160
should not be stigmatized is one of the messages

00:23:55.160 --> 00:23:57.720
I want to get out today Sometimes people need

00:23:57.720 --> 00:24:00.259
it short -term sometimes they need it long -term

00:24:00.259 --> 00:24:03.220
and did you hear what she just said to my listeners?

00:24:03.980 --> 00:24:07.849
85 % better. I mean that's That's remarkable

00:24:07.849 --> 00:24:09.849
and I know we're talking about just in general.

00:24:09.910 --> 00:24:12.829
She's not saying well I was 50 -50 you know parts

00:24:12.829 --> 00:24:15.710
of my life were better but it's substantially

00:24:15.710 --> 00:24:20.769
better just based on this idea that a medicine

00:24:20.769 --> 00:24:23.529
can help us. So we don't want to stigmatize someone

00:24:23.529 --> 00:24:25.609
taking medicine that's I want that to be clear.

00:24:26.329 --> 00:24:30.150
I'm so happy that you had that relief. Can you

00:24:30.150 --> 00:24:33.579
talk to me about Can I say one more thing about

00:24:33.579 --> 00:24:37.279
the medicine? I remember when I was you know

00:24:37.279 --> 00:24:39.859
being afraid to take it I had found out I had

00:24:39.859 --> 00:24:44.059
OCD and I'm like okay now what do I do? You know

00:24:44.059 --> 00:24:47.039
and my friends said you you've got to go on medicine

00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:50.119
and stuff and you know and they were praying

00:24:50.119 --> 00:24:52.980
for me and everything and one day it was like

00:24:52.980 --> 00:24:55.980
the Holy Spirit said you know because I always

00:24:55.980 --> 00:24:58.990
worried it was like the Bible says don't worry

00:24:58.990 --> 00:25:03.490
don't worry don't worry I'm like I'm always worrying

00:25:03.490 --> 00:25:06.890
huh what is this how can I stop I want to be

00:25:06.890 --> 00:25:10.190
obedient but I can't stop and then the Holy Spirit

00:25:10.190 --> 00:25:15.930
said to me one day the medicine is a way of obeying

00:25:15.930 --> 00:25:20.460
me because that will help you stop So it was

00:25:20.460 --> 00:25:23.319
a step of obedience, actually, for me to take

00:25:23.319 --> 00:25:25.980
the medicine. Yes, he says, don't worry. And

00:25:25.980 --> 00:25:32.680
this was a way I could handle that. So it was

00:25:32.680 --> 00:25:35.660
a step of obedience for me, absolutely. And I

00:25:35.660 --> 00:25:37.900
am embarrassed to say even right after that,

00:25:37.980 --> 00:25:40.559
I didn't take it. It took a little more than

00:25:40.559 --> 00:25:44.900
that. I'm pretty, anyway. i'm in that club i'm

00:25:44.900 --> 00:25:48.240
in that club with you yeah so but the holy spirit

00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:51.759
was clear about that that it was a step of you

00:25:51.759 --> 00:25:53.859
know it was a step of obedience it would help

00:25:53.859 --> 00:25:58.680
me stop fearing which god tells us to do wow

00:25:58.680 --> 00:26:03.380
yeah that's great and let me ask what what are

00:26:03.380 --> 00:26:06.240
some other ways and then let's definitely talk

00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:09.160
about your faith and the lessons that you've

00:26:09.160 --> 00:26:11.319
learned over these years that maybe you could

00:26:11.319 --> 00:26:16.180
share with people I want to ask, what are some

00:26:16.180 --> 00:26:18.759
of the ways that you've struggled through it?

00:26:18.940 --> 00:26:21.680
Like what has been your main thought patterns

00:26:21.680 --> 00:26:26.859
that maybe you've shared enough and that's, but

00:26:26.859 --> 00:26:29.900
if you care to share. I have some examples and

00:26:29.900 --> 00:26:33.059
stuff. Is it, you know, in my life, how my symptoms

00:26:33.059 --> 00:26:38.319
came out. I suppose a big part of my struggle

00:26:38.319 --> 00:26:41.460
is with scrupulosity, the religion and faith

00:26:41.460 --> 00:26:44.490
and being. when I became a Christian I did not

00:26:44.490 --> 00:26:46.990
come out of fear which I'm so thankful for because

00:26:46.990 --> 00:26:50.509
I was such a fearful person. I loved God from

00:26:50.509 --> 00:26:53.049
as soon as he called me and I knew he loved me

00:26:53.049 --> 00:26:54.910
and it was like a love thing not a fear thing

00:26:54.910 --> 00:26:59.289
when I came to him but then because of my background

00:26:59.289 --> 00:27:06.230
too and things I wanted to please him and it

00:27:06.230 --> 00:27:13.180
started to become It started into scrupulosity

00:27:13.180 --> 00:27:15.240
a little bit. You know, like how do I please

00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:17.460
him? How do I know this is pleasing to him? You

00:27:17.460 --> 00:27:19.460
know, did I tell this person the exact truth

00:27:19.460 --> 00:27:22.319
or did I exaggerate and should I call them and

00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:26.140
tell them that I exaggerated? You know, crazy

00:27:26.140 --> 00:27:32.640
things. One thing is another crazy example is

00:27:32.640 --> 00:27:36.019
I lived in Sacramento, the Bay Area in San Francisco

00:27:36.019 --> 00:27:38.619
is about three hours away. They have this big

00:27:38.619 --> 00:27:41.089
fire. when I was in my twenties that caused all

00:27:41.089 --> 00:27:43.569
this damage. And I thought, could I have started

00:27:43.569 --> 00:27:46.170
that fire? You know, it was all these things

00:27:46.170 --> 00:27:49.329
of, of sin. I want to please God. I don't want

00:27:49.329 --> 00:27:53.630
to sin, you know? And so he had to work all that

00:27:53.630 --> 00:27:58.269
out of me and teach me grace and what he's really

00:27:58.269 --> 00:28:01.029
like, that he's not up here just waiting to,

00:28:01.089 --> 00:28:03.230
you know, because some of my background was very

00:28:03.230 --> 00:28:06.569
much taught, you know, I was taught that. So

00:28:06.569 --> 00:28:08.670
there was a lot of unlearning and learning to

00:28:08.670 --> 00:28:12.390
do but Just crazy stuff, you know, like thinking

00:28:12.390 --> 00:28:14.970
how could I have started that fire? Maybe I you

00:28:14.970 --> 00:28:18.230
know, I got rid of that motor oil not in such

00:28:18.230 --> 00:28:21.430
a good way and it got into No, it doesn't even

00:28:21.430 --> 00:28:25.049
make sense. And that's the problem. We know most

00:28:25.049 --> 00:28:27.250
people that have OCD know it's crazy that it

00:28:27.250 --> 00:28:31.779
doesn't make any logical sense but We have no

00:28:31.779 --> 00:28:35.200
other way to deal with it except for us obsessions

00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:38.740
I mean compulsions or you know keep going over

00:28:38.740 --> 00:28:41.779
and over it in my in my mind So I would think

00:28:41.779 --> 00:28:44.059
about that over and over trying to remember every

00:28:44.059 --> 00:28:47.019
detail could could I have started it blah blah?

00:28:47.380 --> 00:28:50.819
Another thing is fear of harming others was a

00:28:50.819 --> 00:28:54.220
big one for me and you know that all I mean they

00:28:54.220 --> 00:28:58.599
all overlap anyway, you know so fear of harming

00:28:58.599 --> 00:29:02.690
others I had a Well, how old was he when I was,

00:29:02.930 --> 00:29:05.950
I don't know, a toddler at home. I was a single

00:29:05.950 --> 00:29:10.150
mom and I had a toddler at home and I got it

00:29:10.150 --> 00:29:13.849
in my head. The trigger, the thought was sleepwalking

00:29:13.849 --> 00:29:16.029
because I had sleptwalked a few times when I

00:29:16.029 --> 00:29:20.829
was a kid. And so I thought, oh no, what if I'm

00:29:20.829 --> 00:29:22.609
sleepwalking at night? Cause there's things you

00:29:22.609 --> 00:29:25.150
can't control. Lots of times it'll hit you at,

00:29:25.589 --> 00:29:29.089
you know, because you can't know, you know, what

00:29:29.089 --> 00:29:31.369
if I sleepwalk at night? I'd get in the car because

00:29:31.369 --> 00:29:33.670
I'd heard of people doing that and drove away

00:29:33.670 --> 00:29:36.130
and did something terrible to people. You know,

00:29:36.150 --> 00:29:40.509
very vague, just did something terrible and show

00:29:40.509 --> 00:29:43.589
my compulsion and leave my child alone at home

00:29:43.589 --> 00:29:47.049
who's a toddler. Show my compulsion with that

00:29:47.049 --> 00:29:49.609
was kind of two -pronged. I had a little notebook

00:29:49.609 --> 00:29:52.829
in my car that when I parked after work I would

00:29:52.829 --> 00:29:55.829
write the mileage down and then when I got out

00:29:55.829 --> 00:29:57.970
in the morning I would check the mileage and

00:29:57.970 --> 00:30:00.799
make sure it hadn't gone up. Another thing I

00:30:00.799 --> 00:30:03.640
did is put things in front of the front door,

00:30:03.960 --> 00:30:06.079
like bells that would ring and things that would

00:30:06.079 --> 00:30:10.359
knock over, that would wake me up in case I tried

00:30:10.359 --> 00:30:12.539
to get out. I think I even asked the neighbor

00:30:12.539 --> 00:30:14.440
across the street. I mean, you do really embarrassing

00:30:14.440 --> 00:30:17.559
things. I was so terrible. I think I asked the

00:30:17.559 --> 00:30:18.740
neighbor across the street, did you ever see

00:30:18.740 --> 00:30:21.920
me go out in the middle of the night? He's like,

00:30:22.220 --> 00:30:28.390
what? Yeah. So those are some of the crazy things

00:30:28.390 --> 00:30:31.990
that I went through um praying okay so if I had

00:30:31.990 --> 00:30:34.230
an intense interest of thought during prayer

00:30:34.230 --> 00:30:36.930
I would think I had to start all over again this

00:30:36.930 --> 00:30:39.930
was just part of you know all these things they

00:30:39.930 --> 00:30:43.430
come and go most of them and it morphs into different

00:30:43.430 --> 00:30:46.950
things and changes uh according to you know what's

00:30:46.950 --> 00:30:49.269
going on in your life but there was a period

00:30:49.269 --> 00:30:52.829
of time oh my gosh I would be up late just doing

00:30:52.829 --> 00:30:56.000
that you know praying okay i had a thought that

00:30:56.000 --> 00:30:58.599
popped in okay i'm gonna start over again and

00:30:58.599 --> 00:31:01.460
that's so common with you know my research with

00:31:01.460 --> 00:31:04.000
ocd and stuff it's like some people think if

00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:06.039
they don't sit just right they don't walk just

00:31:06.039 --> 00:31:08.759
right it's all this just right stuff you know

00:31:08.759 --> 00:31:11.859
then i have to start all over again you know

00:31:11.859 --> 00:31:14.440
and the fear of harming others is a huge one

00:31:14.440 --> 00:31:17.359
because if you i mean especially you're a christian

00:31:17.359 --> 00:31:20.099
you love other people you know you don't want

00:31:20.099 --> 00:31:25.680
to cause harm and so It all gets So when you're

00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:28.119
talking about this kind of harm, you're not sometimes

00:31:28.119 --> 00:31:30.359
you talk about physical harm But also like emotional

00:31:30.359 --> 00:31:32.680
scars and hurting their feelings and those that

00:31:32.680 --> 00:31:35.599
kind of harm. Are you talking? Any kind of harm.

00:31:36.039 --> 00:31:39.420
Yeah, okay Yeah, so you you replay things in

00:31:39.420 --> 00:31:42.740
your head all the time to make sure that you

00:31:42.740 --> 00:31:45.599
didn't you know You couldn't hurt somebody it

00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:49.079
didn't you know any and in any way hurt them

00:31:49.079 --> 00:31:53.230
in any way? but that's that's a real common kind

00:31:53.230 --> 00:31:58.930
of OCD the harming of others sure let's talk

00:31:58.930 --> 00:32:04.970
about grace and let's talk about the side that

00:32:04.970 --> 00:32:08.470
i think someone who's struggling i would i want

00:32:08.470 --> 00:32:12.069
to talk first about how has your faith helped

00:32:12.069 --> 00:32:15.950
you now someone that isn't a believer they might

00:32:15.950 --> 00:32:18.809
say what's she talking about this holy spirit

00:32:18.809 --> 00:32:22.480
prompted her to take the medicine Well, I assure

00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:28.079
you that the Bible says once we commit to following

00:32:28.079 --> 00:32:32.880
God in the sense of we acknowledge that we're

00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:35.200
imperfect, we have sinned, and we can come to

00:32:35.200 --> 00:32:39.140
Him because He has made it available. We can

00:32:39.140 --> 00:32:41.759
ask Him for forgiveness because of what Jesus

00:32:41.759 --> 00:32:44.299
had done on the cross. So I just did another

00:32:44.299 --> 00:32:47.420
episode that dropped about a fresh start with

00:32:47.420 --> 00:32:49.589
God. So if you're questioning, we don't have

00:32:49.589 --> 00:32:52.069
to get into the salvation message, but we can

00:32:52.069 --> 00:32:57.230
say if someone has OCD and they're not a believer,

00:32:57.309 --> 00:33:02.210
so they're not thinking, that can help me, how

00:33:02.210 --> 00:33:07.210
has your faith helped you? And that's a broad

00:33:07.210 --> 00:33:09.630
area, so you can talk about anything you want.

00:33:10.349 --> 00:33:14.849
Yeah, oh wow. I doubt I would have made it without

00:33:14.849 --> 00:33:18.119
my faith. I probably wouldn't have taken the

00:33:18.119 --> 00:33:21.279
medicine I just my blood pressure was so high

00:33:21.279 --> 00:33:23.619
because of the stress and everything before I

00:33:23.619 --> 00:33:25.140
went on the medicine and then when I went on

00:33:25.140 --> 00:33:28.400
medicine I got to go off of my blood pressure

00:33:28.400 --> 00:33:32.079
pills because it was you know the stress but

00:33:32.079 --> 00:33:36.539
God did so much like I said he almost like he

00:33:36.539 --> 00:33:38.299
he had to bring me to the bottom and then built

00:33:38.299 --> 00:33:40.319
me up what do you think what I think he first

00:33:40.319 --> 00:33:46.150
had to teach me was to trust to listen to trust

00:33:46.150 --> 00:33:49.309
the voice of the Holy Spirit like first learn

00:33:49.309 --> 00:33:52.650
to okay is That is the voice of the Holy Spirit

00:33:52.650 --> 00:33:55.809
learn what it sounded like to me what it was

00:33:55.809 --> 00:34:01.430
how he Interacted with me and to trust that voice

00:34:01.430 --> 00:34:07.349
because It was the whole not trusting that I

00:34:07.349 --> 00:34:11.030
wouldn't do something wrong But now I trust the

00:34:11.030 --> 00:34:14.400
Holy Spirit he's the one that convicts us he's

00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:18.760
gonna tell me if i have you know if there's something

00:34:18.760 --> 00:34:22.179
i need to apologize for or whatever and other

00:34:22.179 --> 00:34:24.480
than that you know i i just bring the things

00:34:24.480 --> 00:34:30.519
to him if i love the verse about um i will show

00:34:30.519 --> 00:34:33.400
you the way out in your temptation you know if

00:34:33.400 --> 00:34:37.329
you're tempted Come to me and I will show you

00:34:37.329 --> 00:34:38.949
ask ask for the way out and I would give it to

00:34:38.949 --> 00:34:42.949
you That was huge to me years and years ago He

00:34:42.949 --> 00:34:46.670
showed me that one and really put it in my mind

00:34:46.670 --> 00:34:49.889
and heart because then I would start okay when

00:34:49.889 --> 00:34:53.230
I'm triggered by something I Ask, okay. What's

00:34:53.230 --> 00:34:55.409
the way out? I can tell right away my you know

00:34:55.409 --> 00:34:56.949
blood pressure is going up and I can feel it

00:34:56.949 --> 00:34:58.889
in myself Okay, this has triggered me. It's starting

00:34:58.889 --> 00:35:01.730
to get in my head. What's my way out? And to

00:35:01.730 --> 00:35:04.829
me a lot of times it was just a phrase not even

00:35:04.829 --> 00:35:08.030
always a verse maybe part of a verse but a phrase

00:35:08.030 --> 00:35:12.849
um like one of my big ones was no fuss trust

00:35:12.849 --> 00:35:15.070
because god there is a verse that says don't

00:35:15.070 --> 00:35:18.349
fuss you know don't you know and to just trust

00:35:18.349 --> 00:35:21.090
and i had to learn to trust him i think i had

00:35:21.090 --> 00:35:24.789
i think that was a big issue with me is learning

00:35:24.789 --> 00:35:28.170
to trust he's a good god he's not there to you

00:35:28.170 --> 00:35:32.010
know come down in me grace grace i read galatians

00:35:32.010 --> 00:35:35.210
the book of galatians Every day for a year not

00:35:35.210 --> 00:35:37.269
that not the whole book every day But I kept

00:35:37.269 --> 00:35:40.349
repeating it for at least a year because if you

00:35:40.349 --> 00:35:44.590
struggle with you know Legalism or any sort of

00:35:44.590 --> 00:35:48.230
OCD stuff relations is the perfect book for teaching

00:35:48.230 --> 00:35:51.610
you about grace and Don't go back to that old

00:35:51.610 --> 00:35:54.730
stuff. You know, it teaches you You know, this

00:35:54.730 --> 00:35:57.369
is this is a different life and you can you can

00:35:57.369 --> 00:36:00.309
take this life and that I could approach God

00:36:00.570 --> 00:36:03.050
the throne of grace and ask for grace during

00:36:03.050 --> 00:36:08.170
any, any time, you know, because that's, that's

00:36:08.170 --> 00:36:11.210
what I needed to learn most about was grace and

00:36:11.210 --> 00:36:13.829
trust. And, and he built that up and me little

00:36:13.829 --> 00:36:17.070
by little, you know, it takes years. Maybe I'm

00:36:17.070 --> 00:36:20.369
stubborn or OCD is strong. I mean, I know that

00:36:20.369 --> 00:36:22.230
and I've heard other people too. And I mean,

00:36:22.289 --> 00:36:27.119
it's really strong. And whenever you give into

00:36:27.119 --> 00:36:30.400
it, it just makes those ruts deeper. So it kind

00:36:30.400 --> 00:36:35.440
of preserves itself. It keeps on going because

00:36:35.440 --> 00:36:40.059
you have to completely stop, cut off, you know,

00:36:40.059 --> 00:36:46.519
before it starts getting weaker. You feed it,

00:36:46.519 --> 00:36:49.880
it grows stronger. You know, and feeding it is

00:36:49.880 --> 00:36:52.300
in your thoughts, allowing it to stay in your

00:36:52.300 --> 00:36:59.139
thoughts or to perform compulsions and it's hard

00:36:59.139 --> 00:37:05.119
yeah so that the other the other part of grace

00:37:05.119 --> 00:37:07.800
when when we say grace in our family when we

00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:09.760
talk about grace we're like okay dad's having

00:37:09.760 --> 00:37:14.039
a grumpy day he's had a big week maybe that's

00:37:14.039 --> 00:37:15.860
when my kids were younger now they're grown but

00:37:15.860 --> 00:37:19.679
it's like let's give dad some grace here and

00:37:19.679 --> 00:37:25.150
you know not Take everything to heart that he

00:37:25.150 --> 00:37:27.670
says because he's just a big old grump this week

00:37:27.670 --> 00:37:32.269
or something like that and God's grace is this

00:37:32.269 --> 00:37:35.610
unmerited favor like giving us this love and

00:37:35.610 --> 00:37:39.829
and When we don't necessarily deserve it and

00:37:39.829 --> 00:37:44.070
so God's coming back to God's grace Over and

00:37:44.070 --> 00:37:47.429
over I am NOT trying to plug my podcast, but

00:37:47.429 --> 00:37:52.119
I just did an episode. I just come last like

00:37:52.119 --> 00:37:56.039
so two episodes ago was about his grace is sufficient

00:37:56.039 --> 00:38:00.360
for us and In that I did talk about how some

00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:03.800
people take that God won't give you more than

00:38:03.800 --> 00:38:06.280
you can handle isn't in Scripture what he actually

00:38:06.280 --> 00:38:09.639
says is when like you said when there's a temptation

00:38:09.639 --> 00:38:11.900
when you're being tempted to do something he

00:38:11.900 --> 00:38:15.440
does provide the way out just like you said and

00:38:15.440 --> 00:38:19.059
I just it's funny that you say it because I didn't

00:38:19.059 --> 00:38:24.409
realize that that was leading up to today's episode

00:38:24.409 --> 00:38:28.449
and That this was kind of the sequence of how

00:38:28.449 --> 00:38:30.730
things were gonna go and that you're bringing

00:38:30.730 --> 00:38:33.889
up things that I just Covered, but I think they're

00:38:33.889 --> 00:38:36.010
important for everyone's life You don't have

00:38:36.010 --> 00:38:39.949
to have OCD to know that his strength is made

00:38:39.949 --> 00:38:45.349
perfect in our weakness. Yep, and the fact that

00:38:45.349 --> 00:38:50.050
We can approach him and his grace When we're

00:38:50.050 --> 00:38:52.070
feeling weak when we're feeling weary when we're

00:38:52.070 --> 00:38:56.150
feeling down when we're confused we can approach

00:38:56.150 --> 00:39:00.889
God now the solution See this combination that

00:39:00.889 --> 00:39:03.429
she's talking about this solution to me. You're

00:39:03.429 --> 00:39:07.130
saying I had to take some actions I had to feed

00:39:07.130 --> 00:39:13.809
my faith I had to take I have to take the medication

00:39:13.809 --> 00:39:18.719
and I'm trying to bounce it all out. You still

00:39:18.719 --> 00:39:22.599
talked about having people around you that Encourage

00:39:22.599 --> 00:39:27.659
you and people that you can trust so One of my

00:39:27.659 --> 00:39:30.139
overall arching messages every week is we can't

00:39:30.139 --> 00:39:32.980
do things on our own like we think we can sometimes

00:39:32.980 --> 00:39:38.619
and it takes courage to break out of secrecy

00:39:38.619 --> 00:39:42.099
it takes courage to Bring something out and now

00:39:42.099 --> 00:39:45.849
to some people depends on how people react like

00:39:45.849 --> 00:39:48.989
you tell them something about your life and You

00:39:48.989 --> 00:39:51.070
get judgment when you're thinking that was supposed

00:39:51.070 --> 00:39:54.909
to help me get relief Right, but this is a safe

00:39:54.909 --> 00:39:57.469
place. And so you're not being judged at all

00:39:57.469 --> 00:40:00.210
The words that you're saying I think will encourage

00:40:00.210 --> 00:40:04.849
people so so much Do you have any other thoughts

00:40:04.849 --> 00:40:07.170
any things you like to talk about today that

00:40:07.170 --> 00:40:13.860
we haven't covered to share with listeners? Something

00:40:13.860 --> 00:40:17.579
more recently that God gave me that helped a

00:40:17.579 --> 00:40:22.159
lot was and I don't know why that portion of

00:40:22.159 --> 00:40:25.000
scripture never was it never made much of an

00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:27.639
impact on me before but just this year the whole

00:40:27.639 --> 00:40:31.719
armor of God became huge to me. I mean that is

00:40:31.719 --> 00:40:35.219
supernatural armor and I love the part about

00:40:35.219 --> 00:40:38.699
the helmet of salvation because you know my brain

00:40:38.699 --> 00:40:41.820
is like the thing that's like And so the helmet

00:40:41.820 --> 00:40:46.579
of salvation, I just love that picture. And I

00:40:46.579 --> 00:40:51.500
often, often pray on the armor of God, the belt

00:40:51.500 --> 00:40:55.659
of truth, the pick up the sword of the spirit.

00:40:56.900 --> 00:40:59.719
But the helmet of salvation was very meaningful

00:40:59.719 --> 00:41:03.019
to me one day in my quiet time. And it just,

00:41:03.300 --> 00:41:06.679
it made a big difference. So it's like, God will

00:41:06.679 --> 00:41:10.239
spur. different years, different things. It was

00:41:10.239 --> 00:41:13.400
like this long journey of different things I

00:41:13.400 --> 00:41:16.440
could do and strategies and ways that he was

00:41:16.440 --> 00:41:20.159
there for me. But grace and being still learning

00:41:20.159 --> 00:41:22.800
to listen. I'm an introverted person anyway,

00:41:22.840 --> 00:41:27.639
so I can easily sit and just listen, you know,

00:41:28.360 --> 00:41:32.099
for God and, you know, in my quiet time. I can

00:41:32.099 --> 00:41:35.360
do that for a long time. It's easy for me. and

00:41:35.360 --> 00:41:39.400
I'm glad because he that's how I learned to listen

00:41:39.400 --> 00:41:42.800
to his voice and to trust that voice you know

00:41:42.800 --> 00:41:45.380
because I would see oh yeah okay he did what

00:41:45.380 --> 00:41:48.679
he said he was gonna do and you know when he

00:41:48.679 --> 00:41:50.900
directed me that way yeah it worked out and everything

00:41:50.900 --> 00:41:55.000
and so listening listening for the Holy Spirit

00:41:55.000 --> 00:42:03.800
is so huge I think you know but You know a lot

00:42:03.800 --> 00:42:07.280
of verses I think OCD is a stronghold, you know

00:42:07.280 --> 00:42:09.920
I have come to see it as a stronghold over the

00:42:09.920 --> 00:42:14.699
last two years maybe and I wrote a devotional

00:42:14.699 --> 00:42:19.059
on That you know about a three -week devotional.

00:42:19.079 --> 00:42:21.960
It's not published or anything It's only been

00:42:21.960 --> 00:42:24.920
finished since I went to a writers Christian

00:42:24.920 --> 00:42:27.599
writers conference at the end of May and I had

00:42:27.599 --> 00:42:34.420
to have it done by then but Yeah, so I just lost

00:42:34.420 --> 00:42:39.320
my train of thought It's all good So anyway,

00:42:39.320 --> 00:42:42.360
yeah, oh that it's a stronghold and a lot of

00:42:42.360 --> 00:42:45.980
the the Devotionals are about that and I start

00:42:45.980 --> 00:42:48.780
with like a poem because I love I love to write

00:42:48.780 --> 00:42:53.559
poetry god. That was a gift that To me many many

00:42:53.559 --> 00:42:55.960
years ago, and that's my favorite things to do

00:42:56.190 --> 00:43:00.389
and I talk about both secular helps and then

00:43:00.389 --> 00:43:03.170
I'll have a section for biblical help and then

00:43:03.170 --> 00:43:06.909
a prayer at the end of every one and so you know

00:43:06.909 --> 00:43:10.750
I I would love to give you my email or for you

00:43:10.750 --> 00:43:13.230
to put that in the links or whatever you call

00:43:13.230 --> 00:43:16.429
it that people will contact me if they want the

00:43:16.429 --> 00:43:18.389
article that I wrote I wrote an article about

00:43:18.389 --> 00:43:22.789
OCD that goes over causes and symptoms and helps

00:43:22.789 --> 00:43:27.909
biblical helps and secular helps and I would

00:43:27.909 --> 00:43:30.110
love to share it all I want to do is to help

00:43:30.110 --> 00:43:33.090
people with it Christians especially but you

00:43:33.090 --> 00:43:36.449
know because it's brutal it's brutal and I want

00:43:36.449 --> 00:43:40.329
to help people um but could I if we're getting

00:43:40.329 --> 00:43:46.650
close to the end oh um a good resource um is

00:43:46.650 --> 00:43:51.650
the International OCD Foundation okay you know

00:43:51.650 --> 00:43:55.400
if people are looking for Therapists doctors

00:43:55.400 --> 00:43:59.920
are just information about OCD. It's I International

00:43:59.920 --> 00:44:05.800
OCDF They have everything just everything NAMI

00:44:05.800 --> 00:44:08.659
is a good resource NAMI, but they deal with other

00:44:08.659 --> 00:44:11.880
things too. Not just OCD, you know, but generalized

00:44:11.880 --> 00:44:14.619
anxiety depression So both of those are really

00:44:14.619 --> 00:44:20.969
good resources So But anyway I thought, could

00:44:20.969 --> 00:44:24.510
I read one of the poems at the end? Of course.

00:44:24.769 --> 00:44:27.150
And we might not even be to the end yet because.

00:44:27.170 --> 00:44:30.150
Oh, OK. I can't tell. So but I wanted to make

00:44:30.150 --> 00:44:33.289
sure that I, you know, I haven't done this before

00:44:33.289 --> 00:44:35.690
on a website. Of course, this is only I mean,

00:44:35.789 --> 00:44:37.789
on a podcast is only my third one. I'm new at

00:44:37.789 --> 00:44:42.550
this. But I think I would like to today. I would

00:44:42.550 --> 00:44:45.329
love that. And that's super exciting. That might

00:44:45.329 --> 00:44:51.809
be how we we do end. I wanted to say to you or

00:44:51.809 --> 00:44:59.170
ask you I should say can you help us to maybe

00:44:59.170 --> 00:45:02.849
get into your mind or get into your your thoughts

00:45:02.849 --> 00:45:07.389
about on the daily now what does it look like

00:45:07.389 --> 00:45:11.550
now you you've shared over your life and some

00:45:11.550 --> 00:45:15.199
things like Paul in scripture had this thorn

00:45:15.199 --> 00:45:18.239
in his side he called it you know that it just

00:45:18.239 --> 00:45:22.559
he prayed for it and he learned in other parts

00:45:22.559 --> 00:45:24.739
of scripture that he needed to be content no

00:45:24.739 --> 00:45:28.519
matter what his situation was and as I've said

00:45:28.519 --> 00:45:32.039
several times I live life wearing leg braces

00:45:32.039 --> 00:45:35.639
with a physical disability and I don't dwell

00:45:35.639 --> 00:45:39.659
on that but it does have its limitations I found

00:45:39.659 --> 00:45:43.489
ways in my physical world to move around and

00:45:43.489 --> 00:45:48.570
save my back from pain for example uh because

00:45:48.570 --> 00:45:51.769
i address mental health and others i've struggled

00:45:51.769 --> 00:45:56.130
with mental health issues you know i have had

00:45:56.130 --> 00:45:58.090
i have angry issues i don't know about clinical

00:45:58.090 --> 00:46:00.510
diagnoses but that doesn't even matter so i'm

00:46:00.510 --> 00:46:04.530
not trying to act like my thought life is pristine

00:46:04.530 --> 00:46:08.449
and you know i never have any concerns or worries

00:46:08.449 --> 00:46:14.539
i work on my mental health the time and I just

00:46:14.539 --> 00:46:18.039
want to get a picture of how you say you're retired

00:46:18.039 --> 00:46:21.019
from being a teacher you're retired now and I

00:46:21.019 --> 00:46:25.460
know you're active because you actively have

00:46:25.460 --> 00:46:28.780
been on the podcast and you're doing things but

00:46:28.780 --> 00:46:31.340
what does your days look like now where you know

00:46:31.340 --> 00:46:33.920
you've learned to navigate your faith over these

00:46:33.920 --> 00:46:37.460
years you you are on the medication what does

00:46:37.460 --> 00:46:40.820
your days look like are they filled with OCD

00:46:40.820 --> 00:46:43.940
struggles, the real talk is I'm not looking for

00:46:43.940 --> 00:46:46.099
a specific answer. I'm just wanting to know what

00:46:46.099 --> 00:46:51.219
does the days look like? Um, you know, I have

00:46:51.219 --> 00:46:56.719
a pretty kind of easy mellow life now. You know,

00:46:56.719 --> 00:46:59.739
I mean, do I still have the fears sometimes?

00:46:59.800 --> 00:47:02.599
Yes, I have the intrusive thoughts. Yes, but

00:47:02.599 --> 00:47:05.699
God has taught me so much about ways to to handle

00:47:05.699 --> 00:47:09.110
it that it's It's not that it's a non -issue

00:47:09.110 --> 00:47:11.909
because it's there and the mental health field

00:47:11.909 --> 00:47:15.349
they say it's a lifetime Diagnosis OCD, you know

00:47:15.349 --> 00:47:17.349
that you learn to manage it. You don't get rid

00:47:17.349 --> 00:47:20.550
of it. Yeah And as you go through particular

00:47:20.550 --> 00:47:24.230
stresses in your life, it can pick up the pace

00:47:24.230 --> 00:47:28.550
and stuff But my life is is not filled with stressors

00:47:28.550 --> 00:47:34.079
now. It's pretty mellow and so Yeah, when I have

00:47:34.079 --> 00:47:36.679
a thought I ask for the way out I ask for you

00:47:36.679 --> 00:47:39.500
know, go to the throne of grace and ask for grace

00:47:39.500 --> 00:47:41.760
and mercy call out to God when those triggers

00:47:41.760 --> 00:47:46.820
happen and then they Pretty much usually go away

00:47:46.820 --> 00:47:49.760
either immediately or sometimes it can catch

00:47:49.760 --> 00:47:55.760
me and I can be in it for about I Don't know

00:47:55.760 --> 00:48:00.780
45 minutes to an hour before God seems to then

00:48:00.780 --> 00:48:05.369
come in and So it's not always instantaneous

00:48:05.369 --> 00:48:10.090
when I pray, but it it's usually pretty soon

00:48:10.090 --> 00:48:13.429
and You know if I'm trying to get to sleep and

00:48:13.429 --> 00:48:16.449
this is happening He'll give me a way out like

00:48:16.449 --> 00:48:19.289
something to say usually like I said like, you

00:48:19.289 --> 00:48:22.289
know No fuss trust or just whatever and I just

00:48:22.289 --> 00:48:24.710
repeat it to myself and repeat it to myself and

00:48:24.710 --> 00:48:26.710
sometimes in the beginning I used to think this

00:48:26.710 --> 00:48:29.469
isn't working and then I'd wake up the next morning.

00:48:29.469 --> 00:48:35.739
It was like oh you don't realize it or other

00:48:35.739 --> 00:48:39.280
thoughts start coming in just normal daily everyday

00:48:39.280 --> 00:48:42.659
thoughts just start to take over you know and

00:48:42.659 --> 00:48:46.039
it's just it's it's miraculous to see his hand

00:48:46.039 --> 00:48:49.179
but he is miraculous God every day in an every

00:48:49.179 --> 00:48:54.980
way you know and so yeah I mean I I'm pretty

00:48:54.980 --> 00:48:58.019
good now I'm pretty good place but but I can't

00:48:58.019 --> 00:49:01.139
say it's gone it probably never will be you know,

00:49:01.199 --> 00:49:07.099
I have to watch it. But just knowing God's there

00:49:07.099 --> 00:49:10.699
and he's faithful and I can look in the past,

00:49:10.699 --> 00:49:12.780
you know, that he's been faithful. So he's going

00:49:12.780 --> 00:49:15.380
to continue to be faithful and not, you know,

00:49:15.559 --> 00:49:19.559
worry about the future like I used to. Yeah.

00:49:20.519 --> 00:49:22.900
Well, those are your questions. Yeah, those are

00:49:22.900 --> 00:49:26.320
some good words. I really appreciate that. It's

00:49:26.320 --> 00:49:30.690
so amazing. I know we're talking about OCD. But

00:49:30.690 --> 00:49:33.369
I'm just able to apply this to so many things.

00:49:33.449 --> 00:49:37.849
It's not just about your diagnosis. And so it's

00:49:37.849 --> 00:49:42.309
very uplifting because that's the part about

00:49:42.309 --> 00:49:48.309
God. We've lived separate lives, but we experience

00:49:48.309 --> 00:49:53.690
His grace in similar ways and how we can face

00:49:53.690 --> 00:50:00.610
our struggles and come back to Him. I also was

00:50:00.610 --> 00:50:05.289
thinking earlier when you were talking, the thought

00:50:05.289 --> 00:50:07.929
of sinning and actual sinning are two different

00:50:07.929 --> 00:50:12.349
things. The fact that maybe I offended this person,

00:50:12.510 --> 00:50:14.690
maybe this happened, maybe that's going on, maybe

00:50:14.690 --> 00:50:19.670
this, and not that you don't know the difference,

00:50:19.730 --> 00:50:25.889
but what I want to say to people is the temptations

00:50:25.889 --> 00:50:30.269
that we have and even even maybe acting on your

00:50:30.269 --> 00:50:35.150
compulsions, I'm not trying to clarify that if

00:50:35.150 --> 00:50:39.329
you give into it, you're sinning, and if you

00:50:39.329 --> 00:50:41.369
don't, you're not. And that's, I don't think

00:50:41.369 --> 00:50:43.130
you're saying that either, but I want you to

00:50:43.130 --> 00:50:46.429
know that there's no condemnation for those in

00:50:46.429 --> 00:50:49.849
Christ. So when we are believers, when we feel

00:50:49.849 --> 00:50:51.469
condemned, that's coming from another place.

00:50:51.469 --> 00:50:53.630
It's coming from our own thoughts, or it's coming

00:50:53.630 --> 00:50:57.150
from the devil. And then the fact is if we're

00:50:57.150 --> 00:51:01.070
thinking about this or that and we're not acting

00:51:01.070 --> 00:51:04.250
on this and that we sometimes we can feel so

00:51:04.250 --> 00:51:06.510
guilty about well I'm sinning I'm not doing it

00:51:06.510 --> 00:51:09.590
perfectly especially if you have that religiosity

00:51:09.590 --> 00:51:13.070
or you know trying to be overly overly scrupulous

00:51:13.070 --> 00:51:16.869
and so what we're trying to give you today is

00:51:16.869 --> 00:51:21.150
using God's grace it's his love is endless for

00:51:21.150 --> 00:51:24.679
us and his He can handle it. You know, when I

00:51:24.679 --> 00:51:27.559
tell my wife certain things and I might repeat

00:51:27.559 --> 00:51:31.099
it two, three, seven times, it's like, gotcha,

00:51:31.199 --> 00:51:34.760
Corey. Great. God can can handle it. I can go

00:51:34.760 --> 00:51:41.179
to him as many times as I need to. And he's not

00:51:41.179 --> 00:51:44.480
like, OK, can you can you stop with that? Now,

00:51:44.659 --> 00:51:47.780
as we all know, sometimes when we pray to God

00:51:47.780 --> 00:51:52.099
and we ask him for answers, it's it's like the

00:51:52.139 --> 00:51:54.699
go yeah let's do this yes i'm going to answer

00:51:54.699 --> 00:51:58.780
that prayer it's the no like that's you don't

00:51:58.780 --> 00:52:00.500
know the whole picture so i'm not going to answer

00:52:00.500 --> 00:52:04.199
it there or whoa like maybe i'll answer it but

00:52:04.199 --> 00:52:06.980
the whoa is on for now like it's not time quite

00:52:06.980 --> 00:52:09.380
yet for this to happen so i don't want people

00:52:09.380 --> 00:52:15.460
to get discouraged if because god isn't a genie

00:52:15.460 --> 00:52:18.099
in a bottle uh you you can't go to him and say

00:52:18.099 --> 00:52:22.079
god take this away from me and I don't want to

00:52:22.079 --> 00:52:23.280
have to work with it, I don't want to have to

00:52:23.280 --> 00:52:24.739
suffer from it, I don't want to have to feel

00:52:24.739 --> 00:52:28.039
this and I prayed that and God didn't take it

00:52:28.039 --> 00:52:31.320
away. I think some of the most beautiful work

00:52:31.320 --> 00:52:35.099
comes out of our brokenness and some of that

00:52:35.099 --> 00:52:38.659
struggle that we go through can we go through

00:52:38.659 --> 00:52:40.860
it so we can help others in their time of need

00:52:40.860 --> 00:52:44.420
and so I believe that's this full circle moment

00:52:44.420 --> 00:52:46.460
and season in your life where you're helping

00:52:46.460 --> 00:52:50.079
others and so I sincerely appreciate your heart

00:52:50.079 --> 00:52:53.420
towards that. I'll tell you that much. And I

00:52:53.420 --> 00:52:56.340
also, unless there's something else that you

00:52:56.340 --> 00:52:58.440
want to say, I'm going to be in contact with

00:52:58.440 --> 00:53:00.880
you. I'll get the resources that you want me

00:53:00.880 --> 00:53:04.280
to share on the website. Or if you want me to

00:53:04.280 --> 00:53:07.239
put you out there, your email so people can call

00:53:07.239 --> 00:53:10.760
or not call them, email you and ask you questions.

00:53:10.980 --> 00:53:13.800
That would be absolutely. It would be my honor

00:53:13.800 --> 00:53:17.050
and pleasure. That's that's it'll be joy to me

00:53:17.050 --> 00:53:21.050
to feel like I can answer a question or for someone

00:53:21.050 --> 00:53:23.570
that's maybe new to some of these struggles.

00:53:24.050 --> 00:53:27.769
Yeah, definitely. So the floor is yours. You

00:53:27.769 --> 00:53:30.670
can share whatever you want and I'm looking forward

00:53:30.670 --> 00:53:34.050
to it. Okay, I'm just gonna read one of the poems

00:53:34.050 --> 00:53:40.710
from one of the entries to the devotional. I

00:53:40.710 --> 00:53:42.690
don't know, I'm not sure why I picked this one,

00:53:42.710 --> 00:53:47.010
but Especially since I'm not very techy in the

00:53:47.010 --> 00:53:48.969
whole computer world, but this is called the

00:53:48.969 --> 00:53:53.489
OCD code. A malicious virus infects my brain,

00:53:53.869 --> 00:53:56.530
an opportunist feeding upon my deepest fears,

00:53:57.010 --> 00:54:00.070
a glutton never satisfied. It spreads and burrows,

00:54:00.250 --> 00:54:02.369
seeking to populate every corner of my mind.

00:54:03.050 --> 00:54:05.670
My efforts at cracking it have been futile, for

00:54:05.670 --> 00:54:08.489
against its ageist mastermind and his arsenal

00:54:08.489 --> 00:54:12.460
of malware, I am undone. Yet I have a savior

00:54:12.460 --> 00:54:15.380
a security from evil one who paid the ransom

00:54:15.380 --> 00:54:19.099
for my mind He stands guard over me for immunity

00:54:19.099 --> 00:54:22.519
to this virus is more a process than a moment

00:54:22.519 --> 00:54:32.119
Wow, I love that I love that I'm gonna have to

00:54:32.119 --> 00:54:35.980
Somehow we'll make sure that we put a copyright

00:54:35.980 --> 00:54:40.000
notice on there but I work in the computer world

00:54:40.000 --> 00:54:44.719
for my day job, and I was like a tent maker like

00:54:44.719 --> 00:54:48.139
Paul was. I have a job, but then all my ministry

00:54:48.139 --> 00:54:55.460
stuff. And so yeah, that's beautiful. I really

00:54:55.460 --> 00:54:58.460
appreciate that. And that speaks to me. To wrap

00:54:58.460 --> 00:55:02.900
up and make sure I'm telling my listeners what

00:55:02.900 --> 00:55:06.889
I want them to know and where to go. First of

00:55:06.889 --> 00:55:10.750
all, you can go to my website, mindandfaithmatters

00:55:10.750 --> 00:55:14.210
.com, and there's a, even if you do it on your

00:55:14.210 --> 00:55:16.530
phone or your computer, there's a yellow circle

00:55:16.530 --> 00:55:19.989
with a black microphone. There you can leave

00:55:19.989 --> 00:55:22.469
a voice message if you don't feel like typing

00:55:22.469 --> 00:55:27.010
a contact form. And you can share with us if

00:55:27.010 --> 00:55:31.010
you have any questions for Karen or questions

00:55:31.010 --> 00:55:33.690
for me. There's also going to be a companion

00:55:33.690 --> 00:55:36.969
resource guide for episode I think this is going

00:55:36.969 --> 00:55:40.610
to be episode 24. I just want to thank my listeners

00:55:40.610 --> 00:55:45.690
for the support and I also want to let people

00:55:45.690 --> 00:55:50.730
know that if they need anything from any more

00:55:50.730 --> 00:55:53.670
answers from you we will share your email address

00:55:53.670 --> 00:55:57.789
if you're listening to this episode and you know

00:55:57.789 --> 00:56:01.179
someone who struggles in their thought life,

00:56:01.260 --> 00:56:04.300
or someone who has OCD, or someone that just

00:56:04.300 --> 00:56:07.179
needs encouragement about God's grace, or someone

00:56:07.179 --> 00:56:10.179
that loves poetry. It doesn't matter. Share the

00:56:10.179 --> 00:56:13.099
episode. We'd love to get the word out, and we'd

00:56:13.099 --> 00:56:18.380
love to honor God by sharing this story. Karen,

00:56:18.400 --> 00:56:20.860
thanks so much for joining me today. You have

00:56:20.860 --> 00:56:24.380
a blessed week, okay? Thank you. Alright, I'm

00:56:24.380 --> 00:56:27.780
going to tell everyone goodbye until next time.

00:56:28.010 --> 00:56:29.809
Have a good week and God bless.